Episode 60: Understanding The Language of Loss with Natalie Sanchez, Part One

00;00;09;06 – 00;01;13;20
Kelly Parbs
Hello and welcome to OnTopic with Empathia! Today we’re talking about something deeply personal yet universally important – grief – especially when it arrives early in life and without warning. My guest is Natalie Sanchez. She lost her father unexpectedly when she was just 18 years old. Natalie is the author of two insightful books on grief, ‘The Language of Loss’ and ‘Becoming Human.’ In our conversation, we’ll explore how grief evolves, how it touches every part of life, and how young people can begin to find their way through it. We’ll also talk about how you can support a young adult in your life who may be grieving, whether they’re speaking openly or quietly carrying that pain. I’m your host, Kelly Parbs. I’m a licensed clinical social worker and have dedicated my career to supporting mental health and emotional resilience. I’m so grateful to share this space with Natalie and with you. Thank you for joining us.

00;01;13;22 – 00;01;17;04
Natalie Sanchez
Hi! Thank you so much for having me!

00;01;17;07 – 00;01;34;23
Kelly Parbs
Absolutely! Thank you for joining me today and I know that the topic that we’re addressing today isn’t an easy one, but I appreciate your willingness to to share your experience and what you have learned over the years. So hopefully we can help some other people.

00;01;34;25 – 00;01;36;24
Natalie Sanchez
Yes, absolutely.

00;01;36;26 – 00;01;48;13
Kelly Parbs
So maybe where we can start, if you’re willing, is just tell us a little bit about, what happened when you lost your dad.

00;01;48;15 – 00;03;42;11
Natalie Sanchez
Yes! So my dad passed away very unexpectedly when I was 18 years old. And it was March of 2018, I was a senior in high school, and I had actually stayed home from school that day. I wasn’t feeling well. And then I had gotten a call from my mom that I needed to come to the hospital immediately. And so – feeling in my gut that something was wrong? I sort of I knew that there was something wrong, but I obviously didn’t know what it was. And, so I got picked up by a friend and taken to the hospital. And when I got there, my mom told me that my dad had passed away. And so it was just, as you can imagine, incredibly surreal and shocking. He had gone to a gas station right before, and, started having some issues and was rushed in an ambulance there. My mom, luckily was able to get there in time to say goodbye, but I was the first one of my family there to find out the news. So I stayed and saw my three younger brothers and the rest of my family members came and found out this horrible news. So it really, as you can imagine, at 18 years old, I think obviously, I think at any age, losing a parent is so hard. But I think 18 you’re just really starting to find your footing in the world. Yes! Figure out who you are as a person. And so it just really rocked my world as I was getting ready to graduate and, start my final season of soccer and then eventually start college in the fall was just a big, big, crazy life change.

00;03;42;13 – 00;03;47;00
Kelly Parbs
Absolutely shocking. And your dad was very young. How old was your dad?

00;03;47;03 – 00;03;48;29
Natalie Sanchez
He was 46.

00;03;49;01 – 00;03;57;00
Kelly Parbs
46. So when you say unexpected, certainly. He was very, very young. And that was unexpected.

00;03;57;02 – 00;04;09;18
Natalie Sanchez
Yes. We, in the moment, we didn’t know what happened, but afterwards we found out it was from a cerebral hematoma, which is essentially a stroke in the brain.

00;04;09;21 – 00;04;28;08
Kelly Parbs
Things you just shouldn’t have to be learning about when you’re 18 years old. Right! Thank you! Thank you for sharing that. And if you don’t mind, I want to just take a moment to acknowledge something personal here. As you know, Natalie, I was there in the hospital when your dad died.

00;04;28;10 – 00;04;29;08
Natalie Sanchez
Yes.

00;04;29;11 – 00;05;26;28
Kelly Parbs
In my professional role as a critical incident counselor, I’ve been present for many, many crisis situations. Because that’s my job, right? But that day was so very different. My very dear friend. Your mom was losing her husband, unexpectedly. And I was in the room. And you had arrived already? When your mom had to tell your brothers that your dad had passed. So I was just a heartbroken friend witnessing a tragic moment and wishing and praying that I wasn’t witnessing that and that it wasn’t true. And I share this not at all to shift the focus, but just to let our listeners know that I was part of that story, too. And what you experienced that day, Natalie, is something that I’ve also carried with me as well.

00;05;27;01 – 00;05;57;27
Natalie Sanchez
Yes. And I think it’s so, real fascinating to hear you talk about your experience just because I think with trauma like that so much gets lost to our memory? So, when you were telling me earlier about holding my mom’s hand when she told my brothers, like, I. I don’t remember that, because I think so much was lost in my memory. So I just really appreciate, that you were able to share that with me.

00;05;57;29 – 00;06;20;28
Kelly Parbs
Yeah. Well, Natalie, maybe you could help our listeners in sharing some of the wisdom that that you’ve gathered over the years in, in this regard. And, and tell us something, you know, that you wish people knew when talking to you about your loss.

00;06;21;00 – 00;06;53;13
Natalie Sanchez
So I’ll start, first of all, with saying that I know that everyone has a wildly different experience with loss and an extremely different relationship to their grief? So what works for me is not going to work for everyone. I personally have chosen to be more open with my grief and more public with it. But I know that there are people that are not always comfortable talking about it. So I just want to say that as a disclaimer before I say-

00;06;53;13 – 00;06;54;00
Kelly Parbs
I appreciate that!

00;06;54;00 – 00;06;55;22
Natalie Sanchez
– what works for me, yeah!

00;06;55;25 – 00;06;58;08
Kelly Parbs
Yep. You’re absolutely right about that.

00;06;58;10 – 00;08;15;00
Natalie Sanchez
But I do think and I have I have learned from talking to a lot of people who have experienced loss that I’ve noticed- there’s sort of an unspoken stigma around grief, and I don’t think that it’s purely intentional. I think that people often just maybe are worried about seeing the wrong thing, or feel that they don’t have the right tools to use in a conversation. But I think to that I would say like for the people that are grieving, it is a lifelong daily experience. So when somebody asks me about my grief for my dad, it actually makes me feel the sense of relief. And I feel really seen. And like I said, not everyone is going to want that. But I have noticed when you talk to people about their loved ones, sometimes their eyes will light up, especially if lots of time has gone by. You know, it might have been years since they have told a certain story about them. So I would just say, when you’re talking to people, don’t be so afraid about saying the wrong thing and just come with a curious and open heart.

00;08;15;02 – 00;08;16;29
Kelly Parbs
Be genuine and authentic.

00;08;16;29 – 00;08;37;21
Natalie Sanchez
Yes, exactly. Say their name. Ask their name. I think a lot, a lot of questions people ask are related to the grief itself. Or like what happened. But I think it’s really powerful to ask about the person that you lost.

00;08;37;23 – 00;08;54;02
Kelly Parbs
Absolutely. And I guess I would add, you know, from a counselor perspective that if you’re not sure it’s okay to ask someone, you know, may we talk about your dad? You know, would you like to talk about your dad? Just put it out there in a genuine way.

00;08;54;05 – 00;09;01;27
Natalie Sanchez
Yeah. I think if you just show up, really honest, that means a lot to people.

00;09;02;00 – 00;09;31;12
Kelly Parbs
It’s great advice. In your book, ‘The Language of Loss’, you describe how people oftentimes try to fix grief instead of simply being present with it? A reaction that, while really well-meaning, can unintentionally deepen that sense of loneliness, giving grief that like space that it needs without rushing the process and trying to make it better. Can you speak to that?

00;09;31;14 – 00;09;51;11
Natalie Sanchez
Yeah, I think there’s sort of this misunderstanding in our culture that grief is something you move on from. That grief is this very like clinical diagnosis that can be cured. And I think-

00;09;51;13 – 00;09;54;07
Kelly Parbs
– like with the, like with a beginning and an end.

00;09;54;10 – 00;10;43;14
Natalie Sanchez
Yes. Yeah. And the biggest thing I’ve learned is that there is no end. This is something that will be with me my entire life. It’s going to change forms a thousand times over. But it doesn’t just go away because, my dad was such an important person in my life, and I’m always going to be affected by his loss, no matter what stage of life I’m in. So I think when people take the approach of just being able to sit with other people’s grief and not try to fix it, or come up with a solution or a way to make them feel better, that is what’s going to make people feel the most safe and secure and also not alone.

00;10;43;16 – 00;11;02;14
Kelly Parbs
Sure. Just be with them in a clinical term, for that is called psychological first aid. You don’t have to fix it, but be in that space with someone. Let them know that they’re not alone and and that you’re going to be there for them through, through the ups and downs of their journey.

00;11;02;16 – 00;11;45;19
Natalie Sanchez
Right. And I just I wanted to add to that, I think one of the most beautiful examples of that is my first year of college was extremely hard. You know, my dad passed in March, and then in September of that year, I was in a whole new lifestyle. But I was really blessed to live with my childhood best friend. Yes. And there were just so many nights where she would just, like, lay with me and cry with me and sit with me. And she never once, tried to make me feel better. She just really understood the need in that moment for just catharsis. So that’s something I’m really, really grateful for.

00;11;45;22 – 00;12;18;09
Kelly Parbs
That’s wonderful. I’m glad you had a friend like that to be there for you in that way. So as time passes, grief really doesn’t stay static. It changes shape, kind of based on your age and your life circumstances. It may not get smaller, but our relationship to it just continues to change. Can you talk a little bit about how your grief has evolved or changed over time?

00;12;18;11 – 00;12;21;10
Kelly Parbs

00;12;21;13 – 00;12;35;18
Natalie Sanchez
Yeah! So it’s been seven years since my dad passed. And like I was saying earlier, I just think the ages from 18 to 25, my age now, are such pivotal years of growth and change.?

00;12;35;21 – 00;12;44;05
Kelly Parbs
Absolutely! Even for people who are not experiencing this grief, those are our critical years in development.

00;12;44;07 – 00;13;59;11
Natalie Sanchez
Right? Yeah. Just in terms of, career changes, relationships. Living in different places, just really finding yourself. So my grief has really reflected those changes over the past seven years. I recently saw an analogy on social media that I wanted to share, because I just thought it so aptly portrayed the way grief changes. It was saying that grief is like the dollar bill that’s in your back pocket, and you put it through the wash and then when you take it out, it’s it’s softer. And so in my experience that’s exactly what it feels like now when I compare my grief now to that first year, it’s definitely softer, but it weighs the same and it has the same value. And it affects my life just as much. But, it almost feels more subtle. And so it’s it’s still there. It’s still in my back pocket. I’ll pull it out. And it’s with me everywhere I go. But, Yeah, just-

00;13;59;11 – 00;14;06;24
Kelly Parbs
– a little bit different, a little softer! I’ve never heard that before, and I love it. I can see why you do too!

00;14;06;29 – 00;14;34;22
Natalie Sanchez
Yeah. I love that analogy. And then I think also kind of going along with, just the ways that I’ve chosen to cope have also changed? In the earlier years I was journaling to my dad. That was something my mom did and still does. I believe. So I sort of, copied that and was doing that the first few years.

00;14;34;22 – 00;14;52;09
Natalie Sanchez
And then, as time went by, I found other outlets that worked better for me. And I think I’ve just learned to give myself grace in knowing that different things are going to work differently at different points in your life, if that makes sense.

00;14;52;10 – 00;15;59;22
Kelly Parbs
Yeah, there’s a lot of wisdom in that. Not everyone your age has come to know that just yet. And you know what? Not a lot of people your age have two books either. Congratulations on that. I know that’s pretty impressive. Speaking of your books, Becoming Human, the second book that you wrote, you talk about how grief over time, like, we were saying, changes in intensity, it shifts in nature, and it reveals new parts of ourselves along the way. Is something you said? Maybe that’s not a direct quote, but that I love the visual of that, because grief is so sad and difficult and traumatizing in so many ways. But there’s something beautiful also about the idea that it reveals new parts of ourselves along the way. And I think a, a part of that for you has been revealing creativity. That’s something I’ve certainly observed in you. And I wonder if you if you could talk a little bit about that.

00;15;59;24 – 00;17;04;24
Natalie Sanchez
Yeah. So creativity has been really integral throughout my life. Ever since I was a kid, I’ve, I’ve loved to write. I’ve loved to make music. I’ve loved videography and photography. It’s always just been my way of processing the world. But then when my dad passed away, it became my lifeline. And I think I learned really early on that grief itself was just. It was too big and too all consuming to just, like, live in my body. And then I needed I needed an outlet. I needed somewhere else for it to go. Because it was just too much. So I think my books have been the result of that. I’ve journaled a lot throughout the years, and I think that when you think about the energy of loss, it’s obviously this big void in your life.

00;17;04;29 – 00;17;05;11
Kelly Parbs
Yeah.

00;17;05;14 – 00;17;25;25
Natalie Sanchez
And creativity is like the polar opposite of that is it’s birthing your ideas and your thoughts and your feelings onto paper, into music, whatever that means for you. And I think that in itself, that’s been so empowering for me.

00;17;25;28 – 00;17;30;22
Kelly Parbs
Kind of filling some of that void with something beautiful.

00;17;30;24 – 00;17;33;24
Natalie Sanchez
Yes. Yeah. Exactly.

00;17;33;26 – 00;18;02;26
Kelly Parbs
You know, one of the things I remember, I don’t know, maybe a year or so after your dad passed away. Is that you- you put on social media… was it something like you took a photo or a video of, like, one second a day? Yes. Tell us a little bit about that, because, it was just I marveled at your ability to be so creative in the in the depths of your grief.

00;18;02;28 – 00;19;20;09
Natalie Sanchez
Oh. Thank you. Yeah. So the second of the day, I think it’s maybe more trendy now. I think there’s a lot of people who may do it now. I know there’s an app for it. But I started, I want to say, my junior year of high school, just taking a little video every day of my life. And then after 365 days editing it all together and just having this beautiful, like, mosaic of my life. And then I’ll never forget the day after my dad passed. I just was like, how am I supposed to keep doing this video? Like, what am I going to capture of my life? And I remember the first video I took was, my youngest brother, Luke. He was in my bedroom just like looking out the window. And then I just made a small promise to myself that I was going to keep doing it. And I had no idea the magnitude of joy that that was going to bring me. Because after a year, the hardest year of my life, I was able to look back and see how much joy existed right alongside the grief. And so since then, I’ve done that project every year. I highly recommend to everyone.

00;19;20;12 – 00;20;28;03
Kelly Parbs
It’s really something, as an outside observer as well, to see, like literally, visually see that joy and grief, as you say, can run parallel to one another. It doesn’t have to be only one of those things in a space. And I have to share with you that I share that with clients that I work with all the time, because the nature of my job, right, is crisis and loss and death. And, and I work with people who are in crisis. And I share with them this notion that it’s okay to feel joy and that doesn’t dull your grief or lessen the value of your grief in any way. But really helps you to be able to walk through it in a, in a more healthy way. And people love that idea, that joy and grief run parallel. And I think in your creative one second a day videos, you you really show that, so good job on that.

00;20;28;06 – 00;20;50;01
Natalie Sanchez
Thank you. That’s so beautiful. And I agree, I yeah, joy, grief can coexist in the same breath. And it’s it’s wild. I never would have imagined experiencing such a powerful juxtaposition at the same time. It’s life changing.

00;20;50;04 – 00;21;17;27
Kelly Parbs
Well, and one thing, I don’t know if it occurred to you or it was part of your motivation, but it’s a gift to the people who are observing you and who care about you, and care about how you’re doing to be able to see that amongst your grief you’re having moments of joy because then people who love you, you know, can feel that relief that that you do that joy.

00;21;17;29 – 00;21;22;00
Natalie Sanchez
I love that perspective. I never thought about that before.

00;21;22;02 – 00;21;53;10
Kelly Parbs
So when I was in grad school many years ago, I studied something called a systems approach, and that basically meant that when one part of a family is impacted by anything, by a tragedy, it shifts the whole family system. And in the case of you losing your father, of course, your whole family was obviously impacted. But can you talk about how that loss impacted or changed your family dynamics?

00;21;53;13 – 00;22;54;26
Natalie Sanchez
Yeah. So as you’re saying and to your point, I think that it’s really natural and normal when a family member dies for roles and responsibilities to shift completely. And I think that as the oldest daughter and the only girl, I think I really felt that shift a lot and I think I felt early on a responsibility and also a desire to be a voice for my family. I think I just found so much healing through writing that I knew I had the capacity to tell my family’s story, but I guess, you know, I’ve learned and seen in my own family just how vastly different everybody copes with the loss. Yeah. And I just think that’s something really important to remember.

00;22;54;28 – 00;23;09;11
Kelly Parbs
Well, and I would imagine that it could be very frustrating when people in your family who you love don’t cope the way that that you do, or maybe you don’t understand how they’re coping. I could imagine that-

00;23;09;11 – 00;23;10;03
Natalie Sanchez
Yes!

00;23;10;09 – 00;23;14;11
Kelly Parbs
puts stress or strife on a family!

00;23;14;14 – 00;23;40;27
Natalie Sanchez
Yeah, it definitely can cause tension and conflict just by nature, when everyone has different levels of openness, of vulnerability, and everyone expresses their anger or their sadness or their nostalgia differently. It just requires a lot of patience and understanding.

00;23;40;29 – 00;23;56;12
Kelly Parbs
And I would imagine having that patience and that understanding is much harder when you’re depleted from all of the symptoms of grief that you’ve experienced. That really makes it a more complex situation.

00;23;56;13 – 00;24;55;17
Natalie Sanchez
Yes. Yeah. It really complicates.-I would, I would argue almost every like human emotion that you experience is complicated by grief? And I think… as I’ve gotten older and matured, I’ve started to see with more clarity. Just the weight placed on my mom or on any single parent, and just how much they have to deal with and play the role of both parents. I think raising a family is such difficult work. So when you’re doing it alone, I just, I almost can’t imagine, but I have seen my mom. Stay really strong through all of it. And also continue to have a really optimistic, positive, joyful attitude about life.

00;24;55;19 – 00;24;59;06
Kelly Parbs
That that is one of her superpowers, isn’t it?

00;24;59;09 – 00;24;59;17
Natalie Sanchez
Yeah.

00;24;59;21 – 00;25;22;13
Kelly Parbs
So I have to list something that I. I love about your mom, but from your perspective, I mean, I would imagine there’s days where you feel like it’s not my job to worry about how hard this is on my mom because I’m a teenager and my my siblings are teenagers. And and that’s like another loss that you’re experiencing.

00;25;22;16 – 00;25;50;14
Natalie Sanchez
Yeah, I would say that’s one of the many secondary losses. When a parent dies or any family member I guess. But, just trying to find the balance between constantly thinking about your family and wanting to, be there for them and also doing what is best for your needs.

00;25;50;16 – 00;26;07;10
Kelly Parbs
Yeah. Balancing all of that. You mentioned secondary losses, which I think is a really great way to put it. Can you talk more about that? What other kinds of secondary losses have you experienced?

00;26;07;12 – 00;26;55;22
Natalie Sanchez
I’ve experienced a lot of secondary losses. Well, secondary losses are essentially just the ripple effects that happen as a result, of a person passing away. I think one of the biggest ones for me has just been a loss of identity and and learning how to re-find that? You don’t realize how much of your identity is tied to the wholeness of your family or who your parents are. There’s just so much wrapped up in that. So grief brings a lot of things to the surface to examine and yeah, I guess so. Over the years, I’ve just rediscovered who I am as a person.

00;26;55;24 – 00;27;33;19
Kelly Parbs
Stay tuned for part two of my conversation with Natalie Sanchez on the topic of grief in early adulthood. We will talk more about her healing journey, what helps, what doesn’t, and small ways we can show up for people around us to show we care about them. To hear that episode and other episodes of OnTopic with Empathia, visit our website, www.Empathia.com. Follow us on social media @Empathia, and subscribe to OnTopic with Empathia to hear new episodes as soon as they go live. I’m Kelly Parbs – Thanks for listening to OnTopic with Empathia!