Episode 61: Understanding The Language of Loss with Natalie Sanchez, Part 2

00;00;08;29 – 00;00;56;14
Kelly Parbs
Welcome to OnTopic with Empathia – I’m your host, Kelly Parbs.. Today we’re coming back to my conversation with Natalie Sanchez to hear more about her healing journey. Whether you are grieving or walking alongside someone who is, this next part offers hope, perspective, and practical support. You know, you said that about your identity or loss of your identity, and I was thinking, gosh, when you’re 18, you’re already struggling to figure out what your identity is, right? I think that transition from being a kid to an adult and you’re struggling to figure out your identity, and what I hear you saying is that adding the loss of a parent just scrambles that even more and makes it more difficult.

00;00;56;16 – 00;01;50;28
Natalie Sanchez
Yes. And I think to give you, like a more concrete example, for most of my life I was always really, really extroverted and outgoing. And then the moment my dad passed away was when the shift happened. And I think coupled with going to college and just being around so many new people and having a new routine, and forming friendships, I really became more introverted and I think just protective of my heart? I was also at that time going through some personal friendship conflicts. So I think maybe that affected it. But, yeah, grief was just this big. It felt like this big, heavy secret, and I didn’t know how to tell new friends about this devastating thing that had happened to me six months prior.

00;01;51;00 – 00;02;01;05
Kelly Parbs
Sure! Because now you’re entering college and it’s not like everyone that is around you knows about this. Like when you’re in high school.

00;02;01;08 – 00;02;25;22
Natalie Sanchez
Right! Yeah, I’ve I’ve been very blessed in my life to have an amazing support system of friends. And so I was really lucky to have that. My last, my senior year of high school when that happened. And then obviously those friends were all still there for me. But in a way, it was really stripped from me when I was more or less on my own.

00;02;25;24 – 00;02;33;14
Kelly Parbs
Can you talk a little bit more about the importance of your support system, as you were going through some of the more difficult times?

00;02;33;16 – 00;03;39;18
Natalie Sanchez
I guess I just want to acknowledge that I am really lucky to have such incredible friends and family. But my friends in particular have just been there for me throughout the past seven years. I have really, really thoughtful friends who have made me incredible gifts. This past year, I had friends who put together this video for the seven year anniversary. Just like saying really kind messages to me and saying that they were thinking of me. And so I just want to say that because I know that not everyone has that privilege of a strong support system. And I guess I wish people knew or thought to acknowledge people’s grief more. Even if seven, ten, even if 20 years have passed. That’s what makes a good support system is remembering things and acting on it, and not always waiting for somebody to be at rock bottom or to ask for help.

00;03;39;21 – 00;04;10;10
Kelly Parbs
So I think hopefully that is a lesson to our listeners that if there’s someone in your life that has experienced a loss, that’s a role that you can step into, is to be that that person who walks by their side or initiates a conversation about the loved one that they lost, or, you know, just spends time with, with a grieving person because it makes all the difference. You don’t need them to have a magic wand or a magic fix, but just to be a friend.

00;04;10;12 – 00;04;50;26
Natalie Sanchez
Yes. And I think also it’s the small gestures that mean so much. To give another example, my friend Tess, who I mentioned earlier, texts me every ninth of the month. Just she just texts me, ‘thinking of you,’ with a heart and I believe it’s because years ago, I had written something that was like, I- every ninth of the month, I think of my dad because he passed away on March 9th. And it’s such a simple, small and easy gesture, but it genuinely means so much that she thinks of me. So I just think small things like that can go so far.

00;04;50;27 – 00;05;01;17
Kelly Parbs
Absolutely. And she’s saying to you, it still matters. The passage of time doesn’t take away the importance of of your dad. And and that loss in your life.

00;05;01;19 – 00;05;03;04
Natalie Sanchez
Yes.

00;05;03;07 – 00;05;43;22
Kelly Parbs
Many young adults say that early loss gives them a different lens on life, and research supports this idea, suggesting that some grievers develop deeper empathy and emotional insight because of the loss that they experience. And you mentioned in some of your writing that grief transforms the way we understand the things in life that matter most. How has your life gained depth or perspective or clarity because of loss?

00;05;43;24 – 00;06;24;23
Natalie Sanchez
The biggest realization I had, and I think early on was the most important thing in life is, is how you spend your time and who you spend it with. I really felt like it just boiled down to that. And as someone who was a chronic people pleaser for most of my life and just allowed myself to get really stressed and anxious and worked up about so many minuscule things, I feel like the loss really made a lot of space in my life to just focus on the things that matter.

00;06;24;25 – 00;06;26;23
Kelly Parbs
Clear out the clutter.

00;06;26;25 – 00;07;22;22
Natalie Sanchez
Yes. Yeah. It just also allowed me to bring more presence into my relationships and connections with different people. And just because my dad’s passing was so sudden, I now really carry that understanding that life is so fleeting and you never know what could happen with me. And I sort of approach every relationship and conversation like it could be your last. I know that sounds morbid, but, you know, that happened with my dad. I had one last conversation with him, and so when you think that way, it transforms the way that you talk to people, the way that you think about yourself and the way that you love yourself. It just has this ripple effect in every area of your life.

00;07;22;24 – 00;07;58;13
Kelly Parbs
That’s a wisdom that generally 25 year olds don’t have. But because of your experience and kind of to the point that I was trying to make, because of that experience, you developed this deeper emotional insight that maybe you wouldn’t have had, hadn’t you experienced that loss. What things have helped you experience healing and connection on your journey? Certainly you mentioned the the blessing of friendship, but does anything else come to mind? Creativity! We talked about that as well.

00;07;58;15 – 00;08;43;16
Natalie Sanchez
Yeah. Another big one for me has just been physical movement. I’ve, as I said, like in those earlier years, I was having a lot of mental breakdowns, which I know is normal. But then I soon found that, like, exercise and movement, long walks, biking, running, lifting, playing soccer, just moving my body gave me the somatic release that I needed. I’ve really fallen in love with yoga and meditation. Those are really important parts of my morning routine every day.

00;08;43;18 – 00;08;44;17
Kelly Parbs
Yep!

00;08;44;19 – 00;08;46;23
Natalie Sanchez
Yeah! So-

00;08;46;23 – 00;09;12;17
Kelly Parbs
There’s a lot of research that backs that up. And, you know, we say it all the time, right? To take care of ourselves, we need nutrition. We need to move our bodies. We need to have sunshine on our skin. But it really does matter and what I hear you saying is I really need that for healing and for self-care, and it works!

00;09;12;20 – 00;09;34;22
Natalie Sanchez
Yeah. It’s that basic stuff that it seems so simple that it’s almost, if it feels too good to be true sometimes, but when you really dial in and like take care of your diet and exercise and mental health and social life, it makes a big difference.

00;09;34;24 – 00;09;44;03
Kelly Parbs
I say that to clients that I work with all the time. It’s one thing to say it and to know it, but that isn’t enough. You actually have to do it.

00;09;44;06 – 00;09;46;20
Natalie Sanchez
Right? You know, I struggle with that, too.

00;09;46;22 – 00;09;59;23
Kelly Parbs
Knowing it isn’t enough, you have to do it. But it sounds like you have found that motivation. And to be able to to do those things and that it absolutely works for you.

00;09;59;25 – 00;10;36;18
Natalie Sanchez
Right. And I think because I know that, you know, if someone’s listening, that is really early on in their grief journey, it’s so hard. You just you feel really depressed and you feel like the thought of getting up and going for a run just feels like such a massive undertaking. I think a perspective that’s helped me continue to act on those forms of self-care is just remembering that my dad would want me to live the fullest life that I can.

00;10;36;20 – 00;10;45;16
Kelly Parbs
Absolutely. And and I did know your dad and and I absolutely agree that that is something he would want for his kids.

00;10;45;18 – 00;11;04;15
Natalie Sanchez
Yeah. He was just really passionate about or he was really adamant about about following your heart and your passions in life. And so when I think about that kind of gives me the fuel and fire I need to like, keep working towards those things even when it’s hard.

00;11;04;22 – 00;11;36;12
Kelly Parbs
That’s great motivation. And, you know, in terms of being a supportive friend again, maybe that could be a lesson learned for some of our listeners to say. Maybe the way that I can love someone who’s struggling is to say, I know you don’t feel like it, but let’s just take a short walk together and you know, get you moving, without being pushy about it, but just giving them the opportunity to do something healthy for themselves that can help towards healing.

00;11;36;14 – 00;11;53;22
Natalie Sanchez
Yes. Oh, I love that. Because in those early stages, like you don’t have the capacity to make those decisions for yourself, you need you need a little bit of a push, a loving push. So I completely agree. Yeah.

00;11;53;25 – 00;12;19;09
Kelly Parbs
So should we talk about your boyfriend? I know you’ve been in a long term relationship. I’d love to hear a little bit about that. And. And what it is like navigating grief with a partner. It seems like it’d be enough to do as an individual, but now, as part of a relationship. What’s that like? Yes.

00;12;19;12 – 00;13;51;11
Natalie Sanchez
Yes! So I’ve been with my partner Jesse since my junior year of college. So we’ve been together a little over four years. Navigating grief, as a couple has been hard, but also really beautiful. I say hard because he never met my dad. And I think that I’ve always felt this struggle of trying to convey and portray who my dad was. And also, my dad was such a big part of who I am. And so, you know, it feels in the beginning like your partner doesn’t know this piece of you. So, you know, I’m someone that just I love to feel really close and connected to all the people in my life, especially in a relationship. And so I’ve had to learn, and practice a lot of vulnerability and honesty and communication to try to explain what I’m experiencing internally. Because as I was saying earlier, the grief becomes a little bit softer and permeates the surface less. So it’s not always as obvious seven years later when I’m grieving. And for me personally, I can become a little bit irritable sometimes.

00;13;51;13 – 00;13;52;07
Kelly Parbs
I don’t believe it.

00;13;52;10 – 00;14;26;13
Natalie Sanchez
Oh, yes. It’s true! And what I’ve learned is that a lot of times, it’s actually grief that’s unaddressed that I need to feel. So if I’m feeling a little crabby or irritable sometimes I need to just take a moment and ask myself, have I taken the time recently to to process things I’m feeling to journal, to receive that catharsis that I need?

00;14;26;15 – 00;14;28;29
Natalie Sanchez
And then I say that-

00;14;29;01 – 00;14;30;20
Kelly Parbs
I’m sorry, go ahead!

00;14;30;23 – 00;15;06;14
Natalie Sanchez
Oh, no, I was just going to say I say that it’s beautiful because, it’s really been a journey together. And I think that, going through grief with a partner creates more opportunities for closeness and intimacy in a way that I wouldn’t otherwise have. And so Jesse has told me many times, like, this isn’t something that you have to carry alone. We’re going to carry this together. And I, just value that so much.

00;15;06;17 – 00;15;24;06
Kelly Parbs
And I, I would guess that maybe sometimes it’s hard to differentiate. Am I just crabby because sometimes people are just crabby, or, or is this grief sneaking up on me? And it might cause you to really reflect more than the average person would have to.

00;15;24;08 – 00;16;06;00
Natalie Sanchez
Yes. It is really hard to differentiate, and I think sometimes like it compounds. I like to think of grief as like this soil that’s like underneath everything in your life. And if something else is uprooted, if you have a bad day at work, or you know, you’re upset about whatever it is that pulls up some of the soil and naturally those things get woven together. And so to like, help your partner help you, I think you have to learn how to separate those things to an extent.

00;16;06;02 – 00;16;21;15
Kelly Parbs
Wow. That that is just great advice. And it sounds like you are with someone who’s very willing to be on that journey and and learn those tender things about you and, and support you through it.

00;16;21;17 – 00;16;30;20
Natalie Sanchez
Yes, he’s very, observant and a great listener. I’m very grateful for him.

00;16;30;22 – 00;16;35;28
Kelly Parbs
So, Natalie, what have you learned about yourself through losing your dad?

00;16;36;01 – 00;18;51;27
Natalie Sanchez
A couple things, but actually a lot of things. But one of the main ones is I have gotten really comfortable with my own solitude, and I’ve learned that I love to be alone and that my alone time is really important for me to recharge as an introvert and really important for me to do the self-care that I need. I’ve also learned that I am more resilient than I think I ever realized. And I think this this happens to a lot of people when they go through a traumatic loss. At a certain point you don’t have a choice in being strong. It’s just how you have to be to function in the world. But I, I feel like this really came to light, two years ago when I left my full time job to do my photography business full time. And it was the first time I was in control of my own schedule and routine, which was very liberating, but also really scary. Because I suddenly had all of this time and a lot of grief came up during that time because I was at home with my thoughts and my feelings, and I wasn’t occupying myself eight hours of the day at a desk with other people, you know? Yeah. So I, I quickly realized that in order to get out of bed every morning and function and be the business owner and the human being that I wanted to be, I had to fill up my cup with things that made me feel good with, you know, a morning routine every day of meditation, yoga and journaling, of staying connected to friends of eating really well, just taking top notch, care of myself so that I can continue to be resilient.

00;18;51;29 – 00;19;59;16
Kelly Parbs
Excellent. Those are all the kinds of things that those of us who teach and coach resilience recommend that people do. So good for you for figuring all of that out. And again, at a very young age, we we’re not all just naturally resilient. That comes from a place of I love that you said filling your cup. Building strength through positive self-care, whatever that is for you. Part of what it is for you is, is solitude. And knowing that you need a little bit of time on your own to just regroup and fill your cup. And and then you mentioned, you know, moving your body physical exercise, good nutrition, and, and all of that was, was part of building resilience that you didn’t even know you had. I like that you said that if we would have asked 17 year old Natalie how she would cope with the death of a parent, could you have ever have dreamed that you did have the strength that you have today?

00;19;59;19 – 00;20;48;15
Natalie Sanchez
No, it’s it’s a crazy thought to imagine that version of myself and everything that’s transpired since then. I also think a big part of resilience is self-love. Because when you love yourself and you give yourself grace, and you’re able to recognize everything that you’ve been through to get to this point, you’re able to stay devoted to those routines and rituals that, like, keep you afloat in your life. The times in my life where I have struggled with self-love are the times that have also been the most difficult to, feel resilient.

00;20;48;17 – 00;21;05;23
Kelly Parbs
Do you ever bring yourself to a place to remember how very much your dad loved you? And Natalie, that’s something I witnessed firsthand, and- and then say to yourself, I need to love myself the way he loved me?

00;21;05;25 – 00;22;02;17
Natalie Sanchez
That’s such a beautiful thought. And I think more or less, I try to remind myself of that. I have a little frame in my meditation room, and it’s a letter from my dad that he wrote to me when I was in second grade. Probably it just says, like, you’re singing so beautiful in the choir. And I think I see that every morning, and it really grounds me. And, reminds me of the things that he saw in me. I think my dad, both of my parents, have always been really, really supportive of my passions and dreams. And my dad was really vocal about me pursuing those things. So, yeah, those reminders really keep me going.

00;22;02;19 – 00;22;23;03
Kelly Parbs
And again, another reminder for our listeners to hopefully find yourself in a position where you can let somebody know how valuable and and how lovable they are, because that’s part of their toolkit for dealing with whatever adversity you know, they have to deal with.

00;22;23;06 – 00;22;24;13
Natalie Sanchez
Absolutely.

00;22;24;15 – 00;22;36;12
Kelly Parbs
Why is it important for us to have this podcast right now? Why is it important for us to talk to people about understanding grief better?

00;22;36;14 – 00;24;04;26
Natalie Sanchez
Well grief is it’s woven into every part of life for everyone. You know, even if you have not experienced a tragic loss yourself, there’s a high chance that you know someone that has. So I just think it’s it’s really important to understand how to help people through this universal human experience that I think we have become a little bit desensitized to. I think Covid was a huge factor in that. And then just knowing the state of everything happening in the news in the United States, but also in the world, and just knowing that loss is inevitable and there’s so much collective pain that’s happening. And I just think we live in an age where it’s so easy to disassociate, to go numb ourselves out with screens or with whatever it is. I’m definitely guilty of that because it’s a lot. It’s a lot to be a human being and absorbing all of this and also experiencing it in your personal life. So I just think we really need to normalize having real conversations about it.

00;24;04;29 – 00;24;21;27
Kelly Parbs
I agree, and understanding grief, you know, like we said, it impacts every person. There’s no one who is untouched. And by understanding what people are going through, understanding how to be a good friend. I think we’re just making the world a more compassionate place.

00;24;21;29 – 00;24;24;13
Natalie Sanchez
Yes. I love that.

00;24;24;16 – 00;24;47;06
Kelly Parbs
Natalie, I’m. I’m aware of the time, and I know that we need to wrap up. But I do like to ask my guests for just a couple of simple takeaways. What would you like our listeners to take away from this podcast? And in addition to that, are there any books or resources that that you would like to recommend as well?

00;24;47;08 – 00;26;05;27
Natalie Sanchez
You know, this might sound really simple, but I would say you are never alone. I, I just know that there are times where grief can feel so, so, so lonely. Even if you have an incredible support system, oftentimes it feels like people might not understand or that people have moved on if years have gone by. But just know that you’re never alone. And, there are always going to be people there for you. People that love you and people that are going to understand what you’re experiencing. And also don’t neglect taking care of yourself. I think it’s so easy when we have big all consuming feelings to forget to do those basic things? But that is how you move through grief is by finding the things, whatever it is for you, whether it’s creativity, whether it’s movement, whether it’s friendships, whatever it is, find those things and commit to to doing them consistently.

00;26;06;00 – 00;26;10;22
Kelly Parbs
Great advice. Excellent.

00;26;10;24 – 00;27;07;16
Natalie Sanchez
And then as far as books, I guess, I don’t know if they have any like, grief specific books. But I’d love to share some books on creativity that have helped me, if that’s okay. Sure, absolutely. Well, first of all, I’m huge fans of Glennon Doyle and Elizabeth Gilbert. They’re two of my favorite female writers. And I think that they’ve just really been these pioneers and empowering women to own their lives and I think grief is something that you do need to own. Speaking of which, my friend Gael Cullen recently published a book called Owning Grief. I highly recommend that. It’s about her experience losing her husband when she was very young.

00;27;07;18 – 00;27;15;16
Natalie Sanchez
And just documenting that journey and and staying empowered in that journey.

00;27;15;18 – 00;27;17;24
Kelly Parbs
Yeah. Thank you for that resource.

00;27;17;27 – 00;27;48;26
Natalie Sanchez
Yeah. And then I guess as far as, like, the creativity books, I love, The Creative Act by Rick Rubin, Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert, and then The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron. That’s like my holy trinity, they are books that have really helped me harness my creativity, which is helped me find a lot of healing.

00;27;48;28 – 00;27;54;29
Kelly Parbs
Well, and I’m sure if they helped you, they can help and inspire other people as well.

00;27;55;02 – 00;27;59;05
Natalie Sanchez
Yes. They’re incredible, incredible books. Highly recommend.

00;27;59;08 – 00;28;27;16
Kelly Parbs
So my takeaway, is that grief isn’t something to get over, or to expect people to get over. It’s something to understand. And when we do, we create space for compassion and for connection. And, Natalie, your work reminds us that understanding grief isn’t just about healing the individual. It’s really about building a more empathetic world. I really am grateful for your time today. Thank you.

00;28;27;18 – 00;28;29;25
Natalie Sanchez
Thank you so much, Kelly.

00;28;29;28 – 00;29;41;18
Kelly Parbs
If you’re supporting a young adult who’s grieving, here are some simple takeaways from today’s conversation. Don’t rush their process. Grief doesn’t follow a timeline. Offer your presence, not pressure. Sometimes just being there is the most powerful support. Use their name – if they’ve lost someone, hearing that name can bring comfort. Be patient. Healing is more of a journey than a straight line. Especially for young adults who are still finding their identity. Thank you so much for being with us today. We’ve learned that grief isn’t something to fix. It’s something to carry together. And when we carry it with compassion, we’re helping to create a more compassionate world. We hope today’s conversation helps you feel more equipped to do just that. To hear more episodes of OnTopic with Empathia, visit our website, www.Empathia.com. Follow us on social media @Empathia, and subscribe to OnTopic with Empathia to hear new episodes as soon as they go live. I’m Kelly Parbs – thank you for listening to OnTopic with Empathia!