Episode 79: Communicating in a Crisis with Chris McCloud & TJ Winick, Part 2

00;00;11;10 – 00;01;14;02
Michelle Colosimo
Welcome back to OnTopic with Empathia. I’m your host, Michelle Colosimo. Today we continue our conversation with crisis communication experts Chris McCloud and TJ Winick. In part one, we explored what happens in the critical first hours of a crisis and why the credibility an organization builds long before an incident determines whether anyone believes it afterward. In part two we’ll turn to the practical side, building and actually testing a crisis communication plan. Choosing and preparing a spokesperson, balancing legal liability with the court of public opinion, and supporting employees through the weeks that follow. Let’s get back to the conversation. You know, kind of continuing down this conversation and focusing on the employees and just the overall mistakes. You know, TJ, you know, in looking at stakeholders and those that are impacted, what do you think organizations often overlook when supporting those impacted, whether it’s employees or the victims or their families?

00;01;14;04 – 00;03;15;16
TJ Winick
Yeah. Well, this is really Empathia’s sweet spot obviously. But I think that, you know, like crisis communications itself, even if you have a perfect plan in place, if execution isn’t what it should be, that’s where organizations often fall down. So not about policy, but more about you could describe it as pace and presence. So a lot of organizations do the right thing. They focus on getting the right benefits or the resources in place, which certainly matters. But I think they underestimate how much people need to simply be checked in on, you know, repeatedly and in person, not through a single email that just says hope is available. I think we all can appreciate that grief and trauma don’t resolve on a fixed timeline or on a news cycle. And so the situations that I’ve been involved in, I found that support really should continue well after the story has left the headlines. And I know that’s, you know, again, Empathia’s expertise because, you know, after the news cycle has ended is really where people tend to struggle the most and feel most forgotten. And so I think that, again, organizations that tend to centralize communication in a way that feels clinical when you know there are victims, survivors and families, what they actually need is a direct human point of contact who checks in on them, who follows up with them without being asked. And so I do think that it’s the organizations that get this right. They treat support as, again, an ongoing relationship and not just merely a task that has to be closed out.

00;03;15;19 – 00;03;17;10
Michelle Colosimo
You need to show you care.

00;03;17;13 – 00;03;18;08
TJ Winick
Exactly.

00;03;18;09 – 00;04;47;11
Michelle Colosimo
It’s so important. Human interaction is key, right? People naturally long to connect with other humans, especially when you’re in the middle of a crisis. And so being absent can have huge implications for an organization. And to your point, TJ, you can’t wait for them to come to you. You need to be proactive. You need to be outreaching. You need to be present. And you need to make sure that those that are engaging with these individuals can come from a point of empathy, can come from a point of connection, can come from a point of understanding. All those are so, so important. And if you miss that at the end of the day, that can be critical for your organization. How can organizations balance legal considerations? We’ve kind of talked a little bit about this. Right. And even in our in our pre meeting you know legal can be dictating you know what I should say and what I shouldn’t say. And what are the implications. You know based on you know doing this for us financially you know how do you do that. How do you balance the legal considerations but also communicate compassionately and, and all these things we’re talking about. Right, that are so important?

00;04;47;13 – 00;08;57;19
Chris McCloud
Yeah, I think the first thing is and this goes back to just having a plan, is get legal and communications in the same room immediately from, from the first minute rather than, you know, routing drafts back and forth and, and all of that. I mean, in my time as, as a crisis communicator, I’ve had some incredibly spirited debates and discussions about how to publicly address and message communications, because the reality is that our jobs, what TJ and I do, that and the value that we bring to the table, just one part is different than, you know, the focus of what, you know, a legal counsel’s ultimate job is, you know, one is the courts, the actual legal system. And our job is more the court of public opinion. I think it’s important to remember that the court of public opinion returns verdicts as well as as actual courtrooms and in most cases, way before the courtroom does. So, you know, there’s a balance between, you know, this idea of winning a case or liability versus losing stakeholders. They’re both incredibly large losses. And the the organizations that can thread that needle and navigate between the two effectively, you know, are the ones who will will lose the least amount of credibility or regain trust, you know, quicker than than most. I think it’s important to to understand. And TJ mentioned this, this, this, it is a balancing act. There is a line between apologizing. Too much or not apologizing enough. But in in in my experience, expressing empathy is not an admission of liability. Saying, you know, we’re deeply sorry is almost always a safe and most often necessary thing to say, especially if your organization is, you know, is is in some ways clearly liable. You know, again, we’re not your job is to protect the company. We’re trying to protect the company, but we’re trying to protect its reputation. And you will lose the reputation battle if you do not strike the right tone. So, you know, again, going back to the legal versus, you know, courts of public opinion, I think you got to ask yourself to very important questions like, what can we factually say right now? And importantly, how do we say it like human beings and not robots? How do we say it? You know, you know, the holding statement is, is a is a great exercise of of compromise and, and listening to a number of different opinions because you, you, you need to balance that holding statement, that initial statement. You don’t want it to you don’t want it to be completely full of legalese. You have to come across as empathetic human beings because that is who you are communicating with. So. So I think those are really important, focusing on values and care for people. Those are, you know, very less likely to be legally risky as long as you listen to, you know, both sides of, of the that expert coin, a, you know, a lawyer, a council has incredible expertise where they should and they should have a seat at the table, but so should communications, along with a number of other key people in your organization.

00;08;57;26 – 00;10;35;18
TJ Winick
And I would just add that, you know, I don’t think that attorneys and communicators or in conflict as often as people assume, not today. I think some of the most productive and fruitful professional relationships I have are with either general counsel or outside attorneys. So, you know, like Chris said, the statement can be both careful and human. And a lot of the legal counsel I partner with understand that, right. Saying you’re heartbroken at what happened and committed to understanding exactly what went wrong, acknowledges a human cost without admitting fault. You know, you haven’t yet confirmed. And actually, a majority of US states have enacted apology laws. Sometimes they’re called, I’m sorry, laws that protect certain expressions of sympathy. Excuse me? Sympathy, regret or condolences from being used as an admission of liability in court. In my book that I wrote a few years ago, I cited a case of a hospital which was being sued for malpractice, in which a patient had tragically passed away because of mistreatment. And when the CEO finally apologized to the family, they dropped their lawsuit. So an apology, if framed the right way. Working with legal counsel obviously can be incredibly powerful and can actually dissuade parties from following through with litigation.

00;10;35;22 – 00;11;24;22
Michelle Colosimo
Yes. In you know, I that’s something that’s been sitting right on my tongue that I wanted to say is just that, that doing the right thing, you know, and connecting with people. Well, yes, I think there’s expectation there’s going to be lawsuits. But it’s important to know that sometimes lawsuits don’t happen when you do the right thing and when you care for people and when you connect with them, and when you try to help and you own it. Right? I mean, that’s it. And people are so afraid, but actually it can have positive implications in the right way. And I also think you have to be genuine. You cannot come across as scripted. If you come across the scripted. People don’t believe you. You have to be your genuine, authentic self.

00;11;24;23 – 00;13;00;06
Chris McCloud
I think too, that’s that’s a great point. When we talk about, you know, mistakes that sometimes are made, you need to put the right person in front and in front of your, your, your audiences, especially on the public side. If it is the CEO, great. If it’s not the CEO, because that person is, you know, just does not have well, first of all, they should have training. I mean, you’re the CEO is going to have to say something at some point. I’m not I’m not suggesting they shouldn’t. But there are times when organizations will say, well, this is the person that we are going to have speak, because that’s just what we believe. And that person may or may not be, you know, prepared and may not be the right person to deliver those messages at that time. You know, as a, as a spokesperson for, for, you know, a decade, we weaved in and out between when I would speak on behalf of the organization and when we knew it was time for, you know, the head of the organization to take the accountability and address the things that needed to be addressed. Sometimes the CEO was always that person from start to finish, and sometimes they were not. And making those determinations early when you’re testing your crisis plan, etc., which I know we’ll talk about is incredibly important.

00;13;00;09 – 00;13;31;02
Michelle Colosimo
Oh, it’s I mean, you’re leading right in to, you know, kind of that last point. I mean, I think we could talk all day and I wish we could talk all day because there’s, you know, there’s so much we can go into with this. But it’s really if walking away from this podcast, if every organization could do three things before a crisis happens, what would they be? And Chris, I think you already started to hit that, which is so key. But TJ, give me your three.

00;13;31;04 – 00;16;21;23
TJ Winick
This is what Chris and I would call the flagging portion of the podcast, which is what we teach in media training. If they’re just three things you want to remember. Well, of course, signing up for the crisis communications training that empathy is offering with Chris and I is one thing, but building and actually rehearsing a crisis plan, right? And not treating it just as a binder that gathers dust on a shelf. I mean, tabletop exercises reveal gaps that no written plan, you know, can ever show you on its own. And so I think you want to be updating your plan at least twice a year, whether there’s turnover within the organization or whether there are new policies, procedures and protocols that need to be revised and updated so that the plan is always relevant and timely. I think also, you know, and this is a little bit about building reputation and establishing trust before you actually need to spend it. I think that organizations need to think in the good times or in the neutral times, that communicating in a way that’s transparent, engaging with employees, media and the community so that they have that reservoir of goodwill to draw from is really important, because you can’t manufacture trust in the moment of crisis, right? It already has to exist. If you have ten followers, let’s say on a social media channel, you’re probably not going to want to be communicating there a crisis because you haven’t spent the time to build up a following, to build up that trust with individuals on that particular channel. So you always want to be thinking about, you know, meeting people where they are, not just emotionally, but also, you know, when you’re talking about which channels your website, email, a media statements, blog post, whatever it is. And then I think, you know, you need to know your spokespeople. And this is what Chris was talking about, the decision chain before the the pressure hits. Because deciding in advance who has the authority to approve language quickly because crises obviously move fast. And organizations that require six layers of sign off are always going to be behind the story instead of shaping it. And so having that crisis plan, having folks familiar with it so that they know how to utilize it in the times where it’s necessary, nothing is more important.

00;16;22;00 – 00;17;06;22
Michelle Colosimo
I completely agree. And you have to practice it because when you’re in the middle of a crisis, how we’re thinking, how we’re feeling is very different right? Than your than when you’re not. And so the more you practice it, the easier it becomes when you’re under pressure. Yeah. It’s so, so important. And Chris you commented on this to you also identify who really are the right people to be the ones communicating because those who you think might be, once you start going through the, you know, practicing and putting people in these situations to see how they do, you realize maybe this isn’t the right person for this role and this person’s a better one.

00;17;06;25 – 00;18;43;11
Chris McCloud
I may be dating mine, so we’re dating ourselves here a little bit, or I am one of my one of my favorite movies of all time is is a movie called Crimson Tide and the late Gene Hackman. There’s a there’s a scene in that movie. He, as he said in the movie, you don’t just fight battles when everything is hunky dory. There’s a there’s a scene early in the movie where he wants to conduct. He’s the captain of this submarine, and he wants to conduct a missile drill to make sure his his, you know, the crew on the boat is prepared, and he decides to do it in the middle of a of a fire on the ship. There’s a fire that breaks out in the kitchen, in the galley of the of the ship, and he decides he wants to conduct this missile drill. And in the movie, Denzel Washington is the second in command who didn’t agree with the decision. But Gene Hackman entire point was confusion on a ship is nothing to fear. It should be taken advantage of. All I’m saying is you need to battle test your your, your plans. And sometimes in that particular case, there was chaos going on. But he needed to make sure that, you know, even when things are not at their best, that the right people were doing the right things at the right time. It’s actually a great analogy of of, you know, how to prepare for crisis in that in that particular scene of that great movie.

00;18;43;13 – 00;19;46;05
TJ Winick
And another. Yeah. Another piece of that, obviously. And it’s a bit of a cliche, but that every crisis is an opportunity and it’s an opportunity to, you know, show other folks in your industry, in your space, how you need to operate in response to a crisis. And, you know, use that goodwill, hopefully, that you’ve earned during the good times and to, you know, again, be seen as a thought leader, as someone if you acknowledge mistakes were made ahead of time, that may have partially led to the crisis, then you can, you know, make a commitment to turning things around, to doing things differently and to then be, you know, become known as as the the brand that is doing things not only the right way but is innovating in that space.

00;19;46;07 – 00;19;57;21
Michelle Colosimo
TJ, Chris, I really appreciate your time today. I really appreciate your insights and I look forward to more opportunities together.

00;19;57;24 – 00;19;58;21
Chris McCloud
Thanks, Michelle.

00;19;58;24 – 00;20;00;14
TJ Winick
Thank you Michelle!

00;20;00;16 – 00;20;58;09
Michelle Colosimo
My thanks to Chris and TJ for their time and valuable insights. This conversation reminds us that crisis communication isn’t a press release written under pressure. It’s a leadership discipline practice long before anyone needs it. If your organization is thinking about crisis communication, whether you’re looking to prepare before something happens or you need experienced support on the ground in real time, Empathia can help. Our team works with organizations to build and test crisis communication plans, prepare spokespeople, and stand beside leaders during an active crisis. Visit Empathia.com to start a conversation. To hear this episode and other episodes of OnToipc with Empathia, visit our website at www.Empathia.com. Follow us on social media @Empathia, and subscribe so you don’t miss an episode. I’m Michelle Colosimo- thanks for listening!