Episode 73 Hail Mary Pregnancy Faith Cancer And A Surrogacy Miracle Part 2

00;00;08;29 – 00;00;41;11
Kelly Parbs
Welcome back to On Topic with empathy. I’m your host, Kelly Parbs. Today we continue our conversation with Jess and Paige. In part one, we talked about how the surrogacy journey began and what it took to say yes to uncertainty, trust, and to each other. In part two, we’ll explore the pregnancy, the boundaries, the emotions and what it was like to walk this path together all the way to the birth story. Let’s get back to our conversation.

00;00;41;17 – 00;00;54;26
Jessica
They wanted Paige to do some when she was pregnant and she didn’t feel comfortable with that! And I’m like, I’m not going to make Paige do something uncomfortable to her body because that’s not what she wants. And sure enough, if she did not do with her last pregnancies, that I don’t want her to do it with this one!

00;00;54;27 – 00;01;17;28
Jessica
Like, why would I make her change things now? You know, for me, that that made sense. I was like, you’re the professional being pregnant here, I am not! So you’ve done this way more than I have, so I’m not telling you what to do at this point! So but yeah, good, it’s that communication point, you know? I was like, you know, I look at it like this and but this is you like, you know? It’s just talking it out, and…

00;01;17;28 – 00;02;22;06
Paige
And on the other end of that too, like, I know one of our appointments, it might have been shortly after the transfer or even before with our midwife, Jen at Mayo here. She, you know, she did say she’s like, now I just want you to remember that this is your body. Like you are carrying Jessica’s baby, but this is your body and you know, and like that was wonderful to hear that. Like mothers do have like. Yes, it is my body. But also like the communication, like I felt like I wanted to communicate with you all those things. Like I would have never done something, without your consent because it. Yeah, it’s my body. But your baby to me, like your baby was like the main character there. Like, I got to take care of your baby. So ultimately, whatever would have been best, like I would have done for you.

00;02;22;06 – 00;02;43;13
Jessica
And I know you would have! And I agreed with Jen! Like, that’s the thing with Jen, like she would say that, I’m like 100% Jen! Like I am with you! It was like I yeah, yeah. And again, I would always like she’s the professional pregnant lady, okay? Like that I was like, she’s got it. She knows what she’s doing here. Like me, my pregnancy was a wild trip here. So like I only got to be a regular pregnant lady for like 23 weeks, and then, you know, all hell broke loose. So I was like, nope. Paige is the professional. Let’s all just keep it that way!

00;02;43;15 – 00;03;02;01
Kelly Parbs
You cleared all the hurdles, and now it’s time for the medical procedure. Can you tell our listeners about, you know, how did the medical procedure go, and then how long did you have to wait to find out if it was successful? And what was that experience like? Maybe. Paige, you can start.

00;03;02;03 – 00;03;19;08
Paige
Well, we started in- Jessica, maybe you remember the name of the medications because I know I don’t. We started medications probably the end of I think it was the last weekend of March, and I had to do those for… gosh, I did – how long did I have to do that?

00;03;19;08 – 00;03;21;08
Jessica
I think it was like a month, because the transfer was at the end of April.

00;03;21;08 – 00;04;21;06
Paige
Yeah. Because we had to wait until, like, I had to let them kind of know, like what my cycle was? So we kind of had to start – what was it? Did I have to start meds right after I finished my cycle? Yes. Right after my cycle, so that they could really make sure that I was going to ovulate on a very specific day. So I had, I think it was two injections every day. Or was it was a three? I can’t even remember. Like there’s so many! So we did that up until for like a good month because then yep, every day for a month and then our transfer ended up being… was it April 28th? I believe? Yeah, I think it was April 28th? So yep, for four weeks did that. And then after the transfer we had to continue them for another six weeks because I think it was ten weeks total of medication. And it wasn’t bad! I’m not I’m not queasy with needles or blood or anything. So it was totally fine. It was not a big deal.

00;04;21;06 – 00;04;43;16
Jessica
And we went down to Chicago for the actual transfer, and we brought our really good friend, or Paige’s really good friend that ended up being like, my good friend too. We just were so intertwined! We really did. Her name’s Audrah and she- yeah, really became like, the third musketeer of the journey. It like- it was as much as Paige brought her as a support person, I needed her too! Like I didn’t realize how much I needed somebody to, like, you know, Kelly, I wasn’t being, you know, inserted with an embryo. Paige was, but I’m still, like, freaking out, too, right? Like- so Audrah, we had a support person there, and- but we got to sit in with Paige, and it was really cool. Like, you watch it happen. Like, they literally insert it in her, and…

00;05;10;23 – 00;05;29;27
Paige
They, like, hand it through this little window in the room is like silent, dead silent. There’s this little embryo on the top of a needle, and they’re all just walking so slow across the room and were like, don’t breathe, no, don’t breathe!

00;05;29;27 – 00;05;31;24
Jessica
It’s going to fall off!

00;05;31;26 – 00;05;35;25
Kelly Parbs
Wow! And- and so they make the transfer…

00;05;35;28 – 00;05;48;23
Paige
Yep. And it’s all like on a- like we could see it happening like through, like I don’t know. They must have had a little camera on the end of that thing. Yeah. You can see it happening. I mean it didn’t take long! It took what like two minutes?

00;05;48;23 – 00;05;53;23
Jessica
Yeah! It took two minutes! It was so fast. I was like, oh, and we’re done!

00;05;53;23 – 00;06;08;23
Jessica
Nothing like, yeah, we did like months and months of prep, right. And then like a year of, you know, of like all the appointments and the legal and then the transfer itself is like two minutes.

00;06;08;23 – 00;06;12;23
Paige
Yeah. And then we walked around and then we walked around Chicago and had fun that day! Like it was- and then we went back to the hotel and rested, and it was so much fun!

00;06;12;23 – 00;06;27;26
Jessica
Remember, it’s always your feet off like you have to wear like regularly, you know, try to get pregnant regularly, you know that. Yeah. I don’t even know if it’s a myth, but lower like, if it were actually, so maybe you should put your feet up for gravity. For gravity!

00;06;28;01 – 00;06;43;12
Kelly Parbs
So a couple of questions. Number one, what were you told, if anything, of what the odds would be of this being a success? And then number two, how long did you have to wait for- for results?

00;06;43;14 – 00;07;07;08
Jessica
The odds were under 30% because my embryo wasn’t very good! So the embryos that we had were those day-sevens and the letters? I just told them to pick an embryo. I only had two! So like and they, they- like a question that I normally get asked is like, did you know the genders of those embryos? I did not know the genders. Now did the embryologist know? Yes, of course they know. I told them just to pick one because that seemed really weird to me. Ethically weird to be like pick a gender? That was not for me. Now. I did say now, I don’t know if they still have, but I did. I’ll admit, I’ll admit I did say I do have a little girl at home. But you can pick what you want. Just, But I don’t know, maybe they were like, maybe they were both boys! I have no- again, I have no idea. No, I don’t want I don’t want to know. So then I, yeah. So I just had them pick one and again, they were both the same. So they both were not. One was not better than the other as far as odds. But yeah. So it was less than 30% chance it was going to stick because-

00;07;54;20 – 00;08;00;20
Paige
I knew it right away though. Right when they did it I had it-

00;08;00;20 – 00;08;06;02
Jessica
Like, I know, I know it’s work, I know it’s going to work. I’m like, oh my God, this girl is cool.

00;08;06;05 – 00;08;11;19
Kelly Parbs
And so how long did you have to wait to find out if you were right, Paige?

00;08;11;22 – 00;08;19;29
Paige
It was just like, you know, just like you would test when you’re trying to get pregnant. Naturally. I think it was a. Did we wait, like, a week? Maybe not even! Was it a week?

00;08;19;29 – 00;08;28;00
Jessica
It was a week. I know it was the day of one of my really, really good friends funeral. Yes! It was on that day… It was like, must have been like, May, I can’t remember the day of her funeral, it must’ve been like May 5th?

00;08;28;00 – 00;08;42;00
Paige
I think it was a Friday! I think you can was actually there. Yeah, because we wanted to find out together, Kelly. And then Andrah came over too.

00;08;42;00 – 00;08;44;12
Kelly Parbs
So tell us about that!

00;08;44;14 – 00;08;45;14
Jessica
I’m ike sweating, thinking, you know, I…

00;08;45;14
Paige
Well, I took the test and I just I flipped it over so that, like, we could all, like, turn it over and look at it together and oh my gosh. Jessica’s reaction was just the best. Like, I feel like I knew in my heart I was like, it’s positive. I know it, I know it. But your reaction was just like, so amazing, and…

00;09;04;05 – 00;09;21;09
Jessica
I think she lives in the country. But I’m pretty sure the whole county heard me scream like, I screamed, I fell to the ground, I like cried, I, I, I, I had like, oh!

00;09;21;09 – 00;09;27;15
Kelly Parbs
But it was so early on – was there any hesitation because usually people don’t really know that they’re pregnant, THAT soon!

00;09;27;18 – 00;09;46;06
Paige
That was something though they did tell us to like, if it’s- if it sticks, it’s more than likely going to stick, right? So they’re like, y’know, if it sticks in a week, you’ll most likely have a positive test. You know, I think it was. Exactly. Yeah, it was exactly a week. We did wait. You could she could have tested early.

00;09;46;12 – 00;10;10;25
Jessica
But I know, I’m like I wanted to, you know like is wait, please wait till I get there. But yeah that was the thing. The fertility there. Like, if, if you get a positive test, if you wait like a week and it’s positive, like it’s more than likely going to stick. The odds of miscarry at, do- doing it this way? The odds of it miscarrying is pretty low when you do it the IVF way.

00;10;10;28 – 00;10;30;21
Kelly Parbs
So you have this great news of a baby coming. And tell us a little bit about the pregnancy Paige did! Were there ever awkward times when people asked you about your pregnancy, and did you have sort of a script for how you would respond?

00;10;30;24 – 00;10;51;11
Paige
Um… no? I feel like like so many of like our, like, my circle of people, they knew like they knew kind of what we were going through and just goes very open about it as well, I don’t know, did you post anything on social media on your page before… before we had the positive tests?

00;10;51;11 – 00;11;02;01
Jessica
Yes! It was so crazy though, we made the reel. We posted that and then we made people suffer through avoiding because everybody was like on this side of waiting or like, oh yeah, but then telling you like-

00;11;02;01 – 00;12;07;25
Paige
But then that day of the transfer, oh my gosh, I think I got 20, 30 messages from people, Jessica the same, like good luck, good luck! We’re praying for you guys. Can’t wait to find out! So we had so many people in our corner like praying and sending us good vibes. And, I think that’s that was so helpful too, because there’s just so many people like looking out for us spiritually. And it was, you know, so everyone was excited to find out, like, what are you going to find out? What are you going to find out? So no, the pregnancy went great. I was nervous a little bit because the only time I ever had horrible morning sickness was with my last son. I never had it with my daughters. So I was like, okay, hopefully, like before we knew it was a boy. I was like, okay, well, if I get morning sickness, it was with a boy, so we’ll see. But I never I literally had not one issue, not one issue, the whole pregnancy. It was it was fabulous. You know, health wise, everything was good, I felt great. Yeah. I’ve just I’ve been really lucky with pregnancies, and I think that that that’s also a very helpful thing to like, you know, to know if you want to do surrogacy as well, so…

00;12;07;27 – 00;12;22;27
Kelly Parbs
So, Jess, was there ever a point during the pregnancy where you felt kind of like, jealous of Paige, that she was carrying your baby and got to have him in her tummy all the time?

00;12;23;00 – 00;14;32;02
Jessica
Is it weird to say no? I know! I got that question a lot, Kelly, so people would if would ask, right? And I wanted people to ask! I wanted people to ask because… but what I did do Kelly? I- to help with that? Because I had a bad feeling that might happen, that I would be a little jealous, but I really was it because I was so excited! I had been through hell and back. This was like, if this is what I had to do to build a family then I did not care! Like I was like, okay, well, I don’t you know what? I don’t have to gain the weight and I don’t have to be sick- but like, yeah, of course I would have loved to have carried another child! Like I didn’t mind being pregnant at all. Like my pregnancy was really easy. I mean, yeah, I got cancer while pregnant, but for the most part I- it was easier! And… but I would tell people like, yeah, we’re expecting! And then they look at me like, now I’m like, oh, via surrogate! Like, I did not want to miss that. Like telling people- that’s what I missed! It wasn’t necessarily being pregnant, like physically? It was the when people, you know, look at you and they smile, you know, they’re like, “oh, she’s so cute and a little pregnant girl!” It’s like, I miss that! Sure. So what I would do is like, people would be talking like, oh, so what’s normal, I’m 25 weeks today. You know, like, oh, you look great! Like I said, look, we’re having a baby, but via surrogate. And then, yeah, that might lead to more questions, and I would be more than happy because lots of people, which I guess I don’t know anybody either – don’t know anybody who’s, has been a surrogate or is going through a surrogacy. So, yeah, I did my best to like, talk about it and just as if I was pregnant. So that was really helpful to- yeah, just I’m pregnant too! I’m just not physically pregnant? Right. Yeah. So that helped a lot. So I wasn’t necessarily jealous, was just more jealous of, like, you know, I had to talk about it because it wasn’t obvious that I’m sure like that.

00;14;32;03 – 00;14;33;02
Paige
Yeah.

00;14;33;05 – 00;15;21;23
Kelly Parbs
You know what stands out to me about that? And Jess, you know, I do a lot of education and teaching and the topic of resiliency. And we know that one of the characteristics of resilient people is they can look at a really stressful or difficult situation? And they can take the good from it. And that’s what I hear you doing. Not that this was a- a bad situation in any way, but for some people that could be really tough to think, I’m not carrying my own child, and- and people could feel jealous or maybe even sad or resentful. But what you chose to do is acknowledge those feelings as, you know, potentially true, but then find the- the positive. And that’s something that you do in many areas of life, Jess, and-

00;15;21;23 – 00;15;26;07
Paige
I was going to say that- that’s Jessica in a nutshell!

00;15;26;09 – 00;15;35;15
Kelly Parbs
Yeah! A great life lesson for all of us is to really look for the good, even in the toughest of situations, and Jess you can be our mentor in that.

00;15;35;17 – 00;17;09;05
Jessica
Yeah, that’s the big- yeah. Yeah! It’s just like it’s too, it’s- I had good support system too. Like I made sure like everybody around me? That was a decision I made is to be very open about the surrogacy – some people choose to be private. That is, you know, that works for them? I knew, same with my cancer journey. That was not going to work for me. I needed the more support, the better. I had family, friends and I also still to this day have a therapist. I love my therapist. I couldn’t imagine like, not being with her to this day because she’s been with me through cancer. But she was also a major part of, you know, finding Paige, being with Paige. She helped me navigate these conversations? Like, when I knew we were going through attorney stuff, it was like, okay, well, she would help me write all this, that we’d have to talk to you about it with Paige, because I also work full time, so I work full time. I have a kid, I’m very busy? So sometimes going to counseling isn’t just about sharing your feelings. It’s about my hour of getting organized. So that would be my quiet time for us to, like, organize. Okay, I get… she’d be like, okay, so what do you got to talk to Paige about? Or what are you going to do with the attorneys, or the school? Like it would just be a time where I can actually get myself organized? So that’s something else. I think that people forget about counseling? Is like you- yes, even talk to counselors about your problems. But you can also take advantage of some sessions just to like, have an outsider help you get your life organized, and so I-

00;17;09;06 – 00;17;11;27
Kelly Parbs
I really I love the plug for counseling, Jess!

00;17;11;28 – 00;17;28;11
Jessica
Yeah, I don’t know what I would do without, go into counseling here and there. I don’t- I shouldn’t say I go all the time, but I try to go once a month. But if it doesn’t work, at least, you know, I try to get in when I can, because I do… going to counseling is very important!

00;17;28;11 – 00;17;38;22
Jessica
So, for all the listeners out there, if you’re if you’re not, if you never been to counseling, I highly recommend trying it. Otherwise, if you go and you haven’t gone in a while, call your counselor!

00;17;38;24 – 00;17;54;27
Kelly Parbs
We’ve talked about the pregnancy now, what about the birth story? One of the things I’m thinking is you two live three hours apart from one another. If Paige goes into labor, of course I know Jessica wants to be a big part of the- the birth. How did all of that work?

00;17;55;00 – 00;18;03;09
Paige
Well, you go ahead, Jessica. You tell her. Because you came back to stay – I can’t remember if we had or not…

00;18;03;09 – 00;19;25;02
Jessica
Because Jen had told that- Jen is again Page’s midwife, right? She’s the midwife? Yep! Right. Yeah. Janet Mayo, she had told us and it she had really made me – kudos to Janet Mayo, by the way – She had made me feel better! She said like 90%, 90-something-percent of pregnancies will come that last week? And because we did IVF, like the due date was pretty on, right? Because, you know that she got pregnant, you know, like the dates are so on with IVF! So we knew our due date was January 12th. And Jen had said like, well Jess, if this makes you feel better, 90 something percent of pregnancies will come that last week. So I was like, okay, so my plan was so I did! I came that last week, to live with my parents, of my mom, who lives like 20 minutes from the hospital and then 20 minutes from Paige. So it was- that was nice because I remember I still had a kid in school, so that was really tough! Like being away from her, my husband like that. That’s all I was like. I wanted to figure all of that out. But we decided to pull Jocelyn out that last week and come home with me to my parents, so- and just wait, right? Just wait until… and not be annoying. Like, how are you feeling today? How are you feeling today, Paige?

00;19;25;05 – 00;19;28;18
Paige
You were never annoying! Never!

00;19;28;20 – 00;19;33;13
Kelly Parbs
Well, so then how did it work out? You were in town. You were in the same town together?

00;19;33;16 – 00;19;49;24
Paige
Yep, we just kind of- We stayed in contact every day. I know we got together a few times over that time and, it was, gosh, what day of the week was- the 11th? Because I remember saying, like, even a couple months before, I was like, I have a feeling about January 11th, I just have a feeling about it.

00;19;49;24 – 00;20;08;06
Jessica
I think it was a Thursday… Yeah, it was a third Thursday. It was a Thursday. Not yet around. Yeah. Around Five. Yeah. When I tell you, how are you doing? You said, oh like my stomach isn’t feeling well or something like that, but you’re like, I don’t think this is it though. Right.

00;20;08;06 – 00;22;01;18
Paige
Well, I was at, a hockey practice with my boys, and I just kept walking around the rink and, like, I was like, okay, maybe, like, also, you know, when you have multiple pregnancies, you’re Braxton Hicks contractions. They get pretty intense, like the more pregnancies you have. So with, my, my last son, I oh my gosh, my Braxton Hicks were crazy! So by the time he was four days over. So by the time I was actually in labor, I was like, oh, never mind. Probably Braxton Hicks again, you know? But so I was kind of having those all day. And then it was a later hockey practice. It was probably 8:00 and I was there with… I was also very sick. I don’t know what I had. I had gotten like tests done. It wasn’t- wasn’t Covid. It wasn’t influenza. They were calling it the 100 day cough. And I sounded like a man. I couldn’t talk, I was coughing like crazy, but they’re like, oh, you’re not contagious after this many days. And I was like, okay. And I was just- I was like, literally praying to God. I was like, please don’t let me go into labor right now because I can’t breathe. I can’t talk, like. But lo and behold, that was the day that he was supposed to arrive. And so I was having contractions like throughout that, that evening. And by the time I got home, probably at 9:30, I had my husband put the boys to bed. My second oldest daughter, she- she is my sleeper. She fell asleep. And my oldest, Evelyn, she- so she was… almost 11. She was almost 11 at the time. She was she wanted to stay up with me. And I asked her if she could come in the bathroom with me while I took a bath. And yeah, I think I had my first, like actual like, whoa, this is happening, contraction at probably midnight? I think it was around midnight. But we, you and I had been chatting that whole evening. Yeah, but it was also the night of a giant snowstorm. So we’re like, what are we supposed to do? But fitting because the last name is Storm! So…

00;22;01;18 – 00;23;02;00
Jessica
And I yeah, I had the other, had him sitting with my mom! My mom and I are in the living room, and I- you- It’s so funny because Paige’s perspective, she sounds cool as a cucumber. Me and my mom are, like, freaking out in the living room. I’m like, oh my God, it’s like 7:00 and Paige is telling me what’s going on. But she’s like, no, I don’t think this is it. And then Paige, I remember then at 10:00 he talks and he’s like, I think I, I think Dave, it was at 10:30 I think, yeah, I need to leave because yeah, if I remember that is still in Franklin and the Milwaukee area and you’re like, I think Dave needs to leave. And so I called Dave and I’m like, Dave, this is it! You got to leave. You had to leave. And because I get the cells, it’s already our drive. He had a three hour drive in snow! And in the snow storm you got to get- you got to get here. And I’m thinking either way, like you had said, Paige, you like. Either way, this baby’s got to come this weekend, so. Right. But it needs to leave, like, yeah!

00;23;17;00 – 00;24;01;25
Paige
Well, I had called, you know, this isn’t my first rodeo. And all of my pregnancy, all of my labor and deliveries have all been very quick. My- I mean, I’ve been very lucky with that. My first baby was only like six hours. And by the time I had my last, I was in labor for like two hours with him. So, you know, I had called the nurse probably. I know it was around 12:30 because my mom had gotten there to stay with the kids. I had finally woke Ritchie up and I was like, hey, this is happening. And she was like, well, it looks like- And I was supposed to have an appointment the next day because I was 40, 40 weeks the next day, the next day was my due date. So this was the night of the 11th. She’s like, well, it looks like you have an appointment scheduled for tomorrow! Do you just want to wait? And I was like, no, this is happening now. Like she’s like, okay, well like, how far apart are you? Contractions? I’m like, lady, I know this is happening. Like, I need to come in. And what time? I think we got to the hospital around…

00;24;01;25 – 00;24;23;16
Jessica
…12, 12:30, because my mom and I were waiting in the emergency room! Yes, you’re right. My sister was there to- to take over because Josh was sleeping, so I slid out. My sister’s slid in because I was like, oh, she’s, you know, think it’s just me because my sister and I are similar. So I was like… so my mom and I took off and met you and Richie and then Evelyn at the hospital!

00;24;23;16 – 00;25;06;28
Paige
Yep, yep. And, What that. Oh, well, I Richie thought I was going to have him in the car! Because my contractions were, like, on top of each other. He’s like, Paige, you are not going to make it to the hospital. I was like, drive faster! We made it to the hospital. And I’m still like, contraction on top of contraction. And I’ve never had a labor just stop before. Not once. Like, it’s always just, like, kept going. And then baby comes. We get to. They made us go to triage. I think that they- they did. And… and my labor just completely stopped. And I was like, what’s going on? And they’re like, well, maybe you’re not actually in labor. And I just remember you, Jessica. You’re like, she is not leaving! We are not- you got you got spicy for a second with that!

00;25;06;28 – 00;26;35;15
Jessica
I did, I did, and that takes a lot for me to get spicy, by the way! I’m like, can I talk to somebody out in the hallway? And then they talk to. I’m sad. You know, I understand that she’s not where she needs to be. But we have got two families here! My husband is on the way from Milwaukee. Is there any way we can just stay because of the snow? Like My husband’s on the way. We’ve got. It was like, come on here, people! Like, we can’t I, I said, otherwise I’m going to have to purchase a hotel room because she’s not driving all the way back to the middle of nowhere where she’s from! She lives in the middle of nowhere! Like, this is not happening! So then they finally they were like, okay, you know, like because my mom too was like, I think you should say something! And oh, I was getting so stressed out with them like they were a great medical team! And don’t get me wrong by the way, it was just like, yeah, there were just so many people, right? So many cooks in the kitchen! And again, surrogacy is not something you know, lacrosse sees every day, nor nor does any hospital see every day, right? Like, you know, when you have all these parties and then you have the snowstorm coming and then it’s just like all, you know, like aka the perfect storm, right? It was just a lot going on, but we made it happen!

00;26;35;15 – 00;26;39;14
Paige
You’re right, We did get there at about 12:30 and it was about 5:30?

00;26;39;14 – 00;26;44;14
Jessica
5:40! Right at 5:40 a.m..

00;26;44;14 – 00;26;46;06
Kelly Parbs
He was born on his due date!

00;26;46;13 – 00;26;48;26
Jessica
Yeah. He was born on his due date in the middle of the blizzard!

00;26;48;29 – 00;26;50;16
Kelly Parbs
In the middle of a blizzard!

00;26;50;17 – 00;27;38;28
Jessica
In the middle of the blizzard! Yep, it was, I love that. Yeah. Evelyn was there! Her daughter was there, she had- Evelyn did great. And the boys, dad and Grace. You were at the dads. The dads were by the door. They were like, we’re just gonna hang out at the door. I’m like, oh, that sounds great. So, it was so beautiful. It was really beautiful. I do have to say, one of the most beautiful moments for me was I knew for Paige, the, breastfeeding Dawson? So we had a baby boy named Dawson, and, you know, it was important for Paige to be able to have a moment with Dawson and for him to get the colostrum? Yeah, and the colostrum and to breastfeed him and get that was really important to her. And to see that was it was just like, so beautiful?

00;27;38;28 – 00;27;45;29
Paige
And you are! You let me have a moment to myself with him too, and that was so special!

00;27;45;29 – 00;28;12;14
Jessica
I wanted to, you know, I want to do that! Like I was like you, you need that! Like, that’s the least I can do. And I didn’t know how I was going to feel about it, but it was just something to, again, my gut. I was like, let her have this. I am going to have him for the rest of my life. Yes, she can have 15 minutes or whatever, you know, like am, you know, so perfect and slowly or gosh, it just went so perfectly.

00;28;12;21 – 00;28;36;04
Kelly Parbs
So Paige, research tells us that if anyone is going to have a hard time emotionally, it’s most likely going to be the surrogate. Can you talk to us a little bit about the transition after healthy, happy baby Dawson was born? How was that, that transition for you going home afterwards?

00;28;36;06 – 00;30;20;20
Paige
You know, I get questions like this often. And I think what helped the most is knowing that I, you know, we did have such an open surrogacy and did build that relationship. There was never a question in my mind that I wasn’t going to be able to, like, see Dawson again or talk to Jessica or, you know, I wasn’t going to have that bond still. Yeah, I mean it might look different than, you know, most mothers who carry their own baby, but, you know, I have people ask me, I had still to this day, I have people ask, well, how are you going to give him up after he’s born? And I was just tell them I’m like, well, he wasn’t mine to keep in the first place. I just- I was able to carry him and keep him safe until he was able to go home with his mom. And I think, you know, a lot of people like that answer because they, you know, they’re like, do you… did you get attached? Did- are you going to be sad when baby has to go home? And, you know, I feel it was it was a different kind of bond because I felt like I, I got the privilege of carrying him. But also I was so excited to see Jessica hold him for the first time. That- that really got me through! I truly never… and you know, it’s hard explaining this question to people? Because I always tell them, I say it now, how I explain it. I don’t want to come off heartless because it’s not like that at all, you know, because they’re like, well, don’t- aren’t you going to be sad? I’m like, no, I’m not sad because this is how he was supposed to come into this world. I just got to help. I got to be a part of his journey. And now he’s with his mom. Like, this is how it was supposed to turn out. And it’s the most beautiful thing I’ve ever gotten to witness in my life.

00;30;20;22 – 00;30;34;11
Kelly Parbs
And it sounds like you were very, very intentional about setting boundaries around your thoughts and around your heart. And that was very helpful to you in this situation.

00;30;34;16 – 00;30;35;26
Paige
Yes, very.

00;30;35;28 – 00;31;11;14
Kelly Parbs
Thank you so much for sharing that beautiful, beautiful story. I can just hear the relationship between the two of you, and it’s really obvious to me that you’ll have this friendship forever bonded by such an amazing experience giving birth to sweet baby Dawson. But as we wrap up here, just for the person listening who is facing infertility, illness, or an impossible decision, what would you want them to know about hope when the path forward looks nothing like they had imagined it to look?

00;31;11;16 – 00;32;26;08
Jessica
Oh, Continue to reach for your goals! Like, don’t let things get in your way? Continue to, like, go for it and get educated! I have to give a big shout out to, like, the Instagram account @thebiggestask? I- that was not around necessarily when we started this journey. I found it while going through it. That account answers a lot of questions! It can get you connected. Reaching out to like if you have an employee assistance program, they get awesome resources, support through that. Friends and again, friends and family. You’d be surprised, like how many people might secretly be going through some something, going through like fertility that they might be able? I had a really good friend going through, fertility treatment and she was a lifesaver. So again, that was my friend Jenna? And I could not have done it without her, because she was a really big support and teaching me things, but- so I really am so thankful that I opened up about my wants and my desires of life, because I needed those people in my life for that reason, to support me and educate me and just be there.

00;32;26;10 – 00;32;45;27
Kelly Parbs
So for you, Jessica, you’re saying know your resources, use your resources, and accept that support from the people around you. And that really worked out well for you. Paige, is there one thing that you would leave our listeners with as a take away from your story?

00;32;45;29 – 00;33;25;16
Paige
Oh, I would honestly just follow your heart. You know, this was something that truly I did follow my heart on this. I knew, like I said from the beginning, that this was going to work out and it’s been one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. So if you- if you know somebody who you know is in need of a surrogate and you think you’re maybe even willing just a little bit, just explore your options, have that conversation and see what it might look like for your family, because it could be something very beautiful that you’re going to remember for the rest of your life. And you’re going to make wonderful relationships. And it- it’s worth it. Every second of it was worth it.

00;33;25;18 – 00;34;41;08
Kelly Parbs
Very beautiful. Thank you Jessica. Thank you, Paige, for sharing your story. This story reminds us that hope doesn’t always look the way we expect it to. Jess and Paige’s journey shows the power of honest communication, clear boundaries, and mutual respect, especially in an emotionally complex situation. If you’re facing infertility, illness, grief, or an impossible decision, don’t give up. Pause. Breathe. Then ask for what you need. Real support begins with honest conversation, even when it’s uncomfortable. Just made her hopes known. Her willingness to be vulnerable led her to Paige. Sometimes the turning point begins with simply saying, this is what I need. Thank you so much for joining us today. I hope Jess and Paige’s story inspires you as much as it did me. To hear more episodes of OnTopic with Empathia, visit www.Empathia.com. Follow us @Emapthia, and subscribe so you don’t miss new conversations. I’m Kelly Parbs – thanks for listening!