Episode 74: Mind Over Matter: What is Mental Health? with Robert Biggs Part 1

00;00;09;00 – 00;01;53;17
Kelly Parbs
Life doesn’t always unfold the way we expect. Sometimes the challenges we face aren’t dramatic or visible, but instead show up as constant pressure, emotional fatigue, or the quiet sense that we’re just trying to keep up. In those moments, it becomes harder to define what wellness really means, and even harder to know how to take care of ourselves. I’m your host, Kelly Parbs. I’m a licensed clinical social worker, and throughout my career, I have had the privilege of walking alongside people as they navigate high stress environments, uncertainty, and the emotional weight that often comes with simply being human. My guest today is Robert Biggs, who brings a thoughtful and grounded perspective to the conversation around wellness, especially at a time when the conversation feels louder than ever, but not always clearer. Robert works in the field of wellness and supports individuals and organizations in understanding what it actually takes to function well, not just to avoid burnout, but build something sustainable. Today, we’re talking about wellness, why it matters, and how we can begin to move from simply getting through the day to functioning with more intention, awareness and resilience. These conversations matter because wellness isn’t just about crisis, it’s about how we live, work, and show up every day. Please welcome Robert. Hello, Robert, and thank you for joining me today! Can you start us off by telling our listeners about you and about the work that you do?

00;01;53;19 – 00;02;38;07
Robert Biggs
Absolutely! So my name is Robert Biggs. I am a account manager for Wellworks, and- a lot of what we do on a daily basis, it’s something that we live and breathe, is promoting wellness and a better connection between employees and their primary care physicians. One of the things that we really try to stress, especially amongst my team and something that we promote internally with our our company, is that we really want people to be well, we want them to have the knowledge and have all the great tools that are available to them in their back pocket so that they can be the best advocate and the best person for their own personal health.

00;02;38;10 – 00;03;33;25
Kelly Parbs
Excellent, important work! And you know, when we talk about wellness, it’s easy to default to the idea of just not being sick. But we know it’s so much more than that. It’s how we function every day. It’s how we handle stress and connect with people and show up in our lives and in our work. The conversation around mental health feels louder than ever. We hear the terms more often. We see them in the media. The more people are talking about their experiences. All of that, I think is a really good thing, but it also feels a little bit unclear, like we’re using all the same words, but not always meaning the same things. So before we get rolling here, Robert, let’s start by defining what we’re even talking about. How do you define wellness?

00;03;33;27 – 00;05;02;11
Robert Biggs
So wellness I feel like has been become, I should say, a widespread term. They they use it for everything wellness. You know, mental wellness. They talk about physical wellness, emotional wellness, spiritual wellness even. I mean, there’s it’s, a tagline. It’s the, the, the hot topic, so to speak. But when I look at wellness, I just look at what is truly making the body complete. I think is the easiest way to look at that. When we are approaching wellness, what is the the easiest way we can describe being at a point of health within their own body, where you are and where you would like to be. When we talk about specifically, wellness in and of itself, again, with all the different facets and how often it’s used, it’s difficult sometimes because it ends up getting muddied. The water gets muddied with what is. Okay, well, how are we defining wellness? What are they talking about when they’re meaning this specific wellness? How does that wellness differentiate from another type of wellness. So we just look at it in the sense of how healthy are you. And and that’s in a broader encompassing, we’ll say statement. But from there we can of course delineate a little bit further and find out specifically what that means in any given fashion.

00;05;02;13 – 00;05;27;03
Kelly Parbs
Sure. And I think it’s important, at least for me. The way my brain thinks about it is it’s really more of a practice than a destination. And I don’t know if any of us ever arrive at a point where we say, in all of those different facets that you’re mentioning, we’ve achieved our goal, right? It’s more of what we practice every day.

00;05;27;05 – 00;06;31;06
Robert Biggs
Yeah, absolutely. And, when we’re talking about, the before and the after, usually when people talk about, wellness or they talk about, the term synonymously with health, they usually have a goal in mind very seldomly. Or, do I hear or let me put it in my, my frame is that I very seldomly hear people say, oh, well, I’m, I’m just happy with my overall, health, my overall wellness. And most of the time that that’s uncommon. It does happen, but it’s uncommon. Most of the time we hear the thought of, well, I’m trying to get to this position, I’m trying to be less stressed or I’m trying to, you know, form this healthier habit by exercising and dieting. And and there’s so much within this health spectrum. I mean, it’s the reason it’s a, it’s, such a large topic and a such an important topic because, who doesn’t want to be healthy? Who doesn’t want to be… well?

00;06;31;08 – 00;06;54;19
Kelly Parbs
Sure, absolutely. And I think it’s not only important to know what wellness looks like, but also know the signs when it’s slipping. Right? And how to stop that slipping before it spirals into something really serious, like depression. How do you know when your mental wellness is is slipping? How do you advise your clients of what to watch for?

00;06;54;22 – 00;10;30;07
Robert Biggs
So- so I actually think it’s wonderful that you mentioned mental wellness specifically because, in my experience, I was a health coach for a number of years. I was a personal trainer. I’ve run a handful of fitness centers myself. And now I’m in this wellness coordinator, account manager position. One of the things that we talked about specifically is the capabilities. The the the ability to change, I think is the best way to put it, ability to change on any given person, on any given topic. When someone is trying to adapt to a new or, say, habit or activity, they’re trying to incorporate something new. They have to believe it. They have to believe what they are doing is important. They have to believe that this activity, this new habit, is making them better or well, or healthier, or they’re getting the the goal out of it, so to speak. And a lot of the times when we talk about mental, specifically mental wellness, it’s a change in our perception and in our mental wellness drastically changes the way that we perceive all the other facets of wellness. I’m very happy that you brought mental wellness up, mainly because if your mind does not believe that you’re going to be able to do it, then there’s a good chance that you’re not going to stick with the habit. However, if you are in that mindset, that commitment to changing that activity, then you your body will follow suit. So when we talk about mental wellness specifically, it’s it’s difficult. I I’m I’m not going to lie, nowadays, mental wellness is, assailed from all angles. Unfortunately, you can’t look at any form of technology or news without hearing some kind of poor information or poor news or something that’s meant to elicit an emotion out of you. And that’s that’s tough. It is very, very tough. So when we are looking at mental wellness and then it’s like, how do you know when you’re slipping? I think the easiest indicator that I would identify would be the immediate reactions that you have to daily things. And I mean that in the sense of like a daily struggle, a small issue, something that is so benign that it should not elicit such a strong emotion. But then there’s that knee jerk reaction I have, for example, you know, I have a handful of kids and drive them all around. And when someone cuts me off on the road, I’m like, oh, that is frustrating. I, you know, I’m slightly angry. It’s like, oh, that person that wasn’t very nice. But if I know that I’m not in a good mental state or a my mental wellness has, will say gotten out of my equilibrium, I there will be a little bit more like anger towards and it’s like, come on! What are you doing? Like there’s, there’s more of an aggressive emotion that goes along with it and, and that’s just explaining like anger and rage. But that could also be, you know, something that doesn’t elicit, you know, like you will see something that’s very sad or, Old Yeller. You watch Old Yeller and, and and at the end, it’s like you’re bawling in tears and it’s like you’re inconsolable. So it’s like, maybe these are like little identifiers that you could have to say. Maybe something deeper is going on. Maybe there’s something bigger and and maybe that’s something I should pay attention to. So I’m very glad you brought up mental wellness because again, I feel like that is one that kind of guides the rest of the wellness aspects.

00;10;30;09 – 00;11;31;07
Kelly Parbs
Yeah, I, I appreciate that perspective. And I’ll, I’ll just say that in my role, the way I frame that to people, especially when I’m working with leaders, is you just don’t always know the journey. Someone is walking. And so they might have, you know, a reaction to something that’s incongruent, or at least it seems incongruent with the situation. And just recently in a training I did, I used the example of someone who might go up to the counter at the airline and just start yelling at at the people at the counter because of a ten minute delay, right? That it might be a really big reaction, but what that what that representative at the airline might not know is, is, you know, maybe that person just lost their mom and they’re on a flight to, to go to a funeral or, you know, those, those big reactions to things that seem like you said, be not benign. It really couldn’t just be an indicator that something else is going on under the surface that that we should be aware of and, and address that.

00;11;31;09 – 00;12;50;07
Robert Biggs
That’s- that’s a beautiful way of putting it there. I heard this saying a long time ago, and it was more, indicative of how you were handling situations and in interacting with people that you don’t know, strangers, which, again, for the most part, were out there every day interacting with people that we don’t know. And the immediate reaction that we have is to think that someone is doing something purposely to attack us, to purposely be rude or inconsiderate to us. We take it almost as our personal attack. Whereas in that sense, to your point, we may not know exactly what that person has going on. And of course, there are the, you know, the bad apples who are just like, they’re just being mean to be mean. Let’s be serious. However, there’s probably a lot more underneath the the surface like they are having as deep and a will say vivid life as you are and and sometimes to put it into perspective, what they’re going through may be the worst day of their possible life. And even though it might be something small to you, it might be something major to them. So approaching that with a little bit of kindness, a little bit of humility and just understanding to say, hey, you know, that person probably is having a really bad day, so we’ll give them the benefit of the doubt.

00;12;50;10 – 00;13;11;29
Kelly Parbs
And, and what you just described there is part of what we would call emotional intelligence. And I’m a firm believer that having strong emotional intelligence is an indicator of of wellness, part of that whole spectrum of what we should be looking for in terms of of someone being, well, overall.

00;13;12;02 – 00;15;23;26
Robert Biggs
Oh, 100%. I think that kind of also rolls into the idea of emotional wellness and emotional regulation. I mean, we discuss dealing with onsets of, acts and small things that are bothering us. We’ll say throughout the day. And how do we handle those situations? How do we approach those situations? So, for example, you know, I… though I’m notorious for it and I try my best, but, bouncing back and forth and making sure that I get my, all my kids to school on time. And, you know, when I’m met with some kind of delay, there’s construction or there’s a lot of traffic or, you know, there’s something going on if there’s a, heaven forbid, an accident, there’s things like that where you can approach that and and to go off of emotional intelligence. One of the big things that we talk about emotional intelligence is emotional regulation. It’s because in that situation where I’m delayed and I’m late getting my kid to school, like I could react aggressively, I could be like, oh, this is, you know, the whole world’s out to get me. Or perhaps I could take a moment and say, I could have left earlier. I could have, I can’t change the situation of what’s happening right now. So we will just move forward with what we have. And I think that’s that’s an important part, that emotional regulation of just taking a minute and putting things into perspective, especially because one of those will say those, those actions or that event that is causing us, these emotions, taking a moment to realize that things could again, just take a, take a step back and say things could be worse. I could have done things differently. And it really reframes how, how mad can you be? How upset can you be? How, you know, frustrated. And there’s steps that could have happened. And I think that’s very important aspect of emotional intelligence is that emotional regulation, being able to take those emotions and realize, okay, I may have that initial reaction, but how do I what’s my next step? How do I react to that reaction? You know.

00;15;23;28 – 00;16;27;11
Kelly Parbs
Yes, I, I really want to highlight one of the things that you said, which is, you know, knowing that I can’t control the situation. I think people who who are able to regulate their emotions are also able to say, all right, this is a really frustrating situation right now, but I can’t control what’s going on. I can’t control this traffic situation, but certainly I can control how I am reacting to it. So to the point, to the question I asked earlier is how do you know when your emotional wellness might be slipping? It’s when you’re not able to regulate those emotions or when you’re not able to identify, hey, this isn’t something that I can control, but I can control how I react. So important things for all of us to to think about. Which leads me to the question, about all of this talk that we hear about mental health, which, you know, I think is a good thing. But why do you think there has been such a rise in the past few years in talk about mental health?

00;16;27;13 – 00;17;02;24
Robert Biggs
Personally, I think it’s because there is a lot larger emphasis of its importance and the understanding of how it dictates the rest of overall wellness. I mean, if we look at even my previous, talking points of how, you know, mental wellness can almost be the guiding factor, the decision maker of the rest of the wellness is, I think that that has been identified as one of the key factors, one of the the the we’ll say most important aspects of overall wellness is going to be mental wellness.

00;17;02;25 – 00;17;24;09
Kelly Parbs
And I think just to bring out the positives, I think we really are working on reducing the stigma around talking about it. Right. It used to be that that just wasn’t something strong people did. You didn’t talk about your mental health, but I think we are breaking down those barriers and the stigma around talking about mental health. And I think that’s a good thing.

00;17;24;11 – 00;18;36;28
Robert Biggs
Oh, absolutely. And, I mean, I even look at when I was a young man and, the it was always, you know, stiff upper, stiff upper lip, then, you know, like, we don’t we don’t cry, we don’t show any of these kind of emotions. And, it’s it’s not necessarily to say that it is like emotions having these emotions are bad. It’s more so to say that it’s okay to have them. And I think that’s the that’s the bigger aspect of, mental wellness that I’m starting to see, especially with it being the rise of how important it is. And also kind of case in point, we were talking about, a why it’s so important and, and how big it’s gotten. Personally, I think it’s gotten a lot bigger, a lot more of an important aspect to talk about ever since Covid until, ever since, like the 2020, 20, 21 years, it has been so critically important for us to talk about that, because I don’t think that that as a society, I really don’t think that did a number to mental health, that did a number to a lot of people. And I think that’s why it’s gotten to be so important.

00;18;37;01 – 00;18;58;21
Kelly Parbs
I agree, I think it just became undeniable during that time that we needed to to start talking about mental health and as much as I wish we our world didn’t have to go through the whole Covid situation, I that maybe is a positive that we can identify that came out of it. It brought these conversations about mental health out of the shadows.

00;18;58;23 – 00;20;19;04
Robert Biggs
Oh, absolutely. And it became a lot less, we’ll say odd to talk about or strange to talk about, because there were so many people who were having a bad situations. I mean, I hearing stories on the news, hearing stories anecdotally from friends. I mean, it’s it it does a number to, one’s mental health. So it it definitely brought it up to the forefront, which. Yeah, I mean, of course, you know, I, I agree, I wish that we didn’t have to go through what we did in 2020. In 2021, however, there is always some good that that has, come out of it. And that that would be one thing is the the rise of the talk of mental well, health and being able to say, hey, I’m not okay. Like, I think that’s such a powerful statement. It’s just that, honestly, it to be honest with, you know, a close friend, a, health care professional was just saying, like, I’m not doing okay, and and open up that conversation because once we are getting into that, once we get into that aspect of not only just mental wellness, but just wellness in general, being able to admit where we are and understanding that we are recognizing that there’s something not quite right and we may not even know exactly what that that not quite right is true.

00;20;19;05 – 00;20;20;00
Kelly Parbs
Sure!

00;20;20;02 – 00;20;37;24
Robert Biggs
It’s it’s it opens up such a deeper conversation about yourself. And I honestly believe that it benefits the person so much more to be able to have that conversation, to have that that talking point, to understand, you know, like, let’s let’s talk let’s figure this out.

00;20;37;27 – 00;21;15;00
Kelly Parbs
And then another thing I think about is, okay, the awareness is so important. And we’ve reached that point. But at some point do we get kind of overwhelmed as a society just thinking, thinking, thinking about mental wellness and mental health and not doing anything about it? I think I think there comes a time where now we need to take action and learn some lessons and dig in and say what is good for me. And I would like to talk a little bit about that. What are some components of mental wellness and what what kinds of actions can we take to improve them?

00;21;15;02 – 00;21;40;22
Robert Biggs
That’s a wonderful question because there there is no one right answer for for any given one person. What’s maybe good for one person’s mental wellness? Wellness? Maybe not as great for someone else’s. I bring, so this is something fun that I’ve talked with my wife about just because I thought it would be an interesting activity to do. But have you heard of Rage Rooms? Have you heard of that?

00;21;40;24 – 00;21;44;13
Kelly Parbs
I have, I have no experience with rage rooms, but I’ve heard the term.

00;21;44;19 – 00;24;13;18
Robert Biggs
Neither do I. I have no experience whatsoever. But I’ve vicariously watched, like, videos of that, and I’m like, man, that sounds like that would be like, you know, if I had a really stressful week at work and running around like, you know, maybe just spending an hour in there, just, just, let it all out, let all that aggression out in a safe and controlled manner. And I was talking to my wife about that. And she goes, that does not sound enjoyable to me. If like, she was like, if I had a stressful week, she’s like, I want to be, you know, relaxing. I want, we have we joke, she cocoons, she gets into her bed, gets all nice and cozy, covered up in blankets and stuff like that, and she’ll just take a nap. And that’s her decompression. And it’s in. It’s funny, when we talk about the differences of what, like, how to cultivate a better mental wellness because there is no one right answer. Some people very much like exercise. Personally, I’m one of those. I enjoy exercising to relieve some of the stress. You get some of that. Good. What’s called you stress. And which is the, the beneficial ones. But then, you know, there might be people who just actually very much enjoy meditation and taking a moment to, to to reflect and to offer a gratitude that, that, that is a great one. Prayer is also another great way for mental wellness. There’s so many different ways that you can attack. That’s one objective, that there is no one true right way. And if I were a listener and I were picking this up and saying, you know, I would like, how could I apply this to myself, I would say, first, look at things that you would find calming things that would, you would find, would, would relax you historically and, you know, use that kind of information and try new things, try meditation, try, you know what? Actually sitting in a sauna, if you have access to one like that, like to me that actually is very relaxing. I very much enjoy that. That’s a good way to to really hone my mental wellness, because I feel like I come out and I’ve had my moment. I’ve taken care of myself, which is always a a benefit to my mental well-being. Is okay. I’ve done something today that has improved my body or has maintained my body. That’s always something that I would say is a target, but don’t be afraid to go out and try new ways to improve your mental wellness. Do new ways to release that stress. You got to let it go.

00;24;13;20 – 00;24;58;29
Kelly Parbs
Well, and we’re saying mental wellness but physical wellness as well, right? We’re addressing kind of the the whole being. And I like what you said about knowing what works for you. Number one, start there. I work in my job with with people who have gone through crisis. And when you’re in a crisis, you’re not necessarily in a state to learn a new self-care strategy or coping skill. So I always say, look back at what you know has worked for you before. That’s part of just being aware and and build upon that. Do what has worked before. But what I hear you saying is, when you’re not in a state of crisis and you’re in a state of hey, I want to learn and improve? Think about maybe trying something different.

00;24;59;02 – 00;25;51;04
Robert Biggs
Absolutely. And I think that’s also the the beautiful part of, of, of the it kind of like the mental wellness, the, the overall well-being journey is that you’re capable of trying new things, you’re capable of finding what works for you. And you did you bring up a wonderful point is that when you’re in a moment of high tense, you know, a high stress or a period of time where you’re finding it difficult to relax, to bring yourself back down to a better state is state of well-being. It’s very difficult to go ahead and pick up a brand new mentality, a brand new, activity habit easily. It’s not it’s not going to be it’s not as good as it could possibly be. Where I would say that going back to what, you know, works, going back to where you were familiar, going back to what your quote unquote comfort is. Absolutely.

00;25;51;10 – 00;26;04;20
Kelly Parbs
So one of the first things you mentioned, because, Robert, you said it’s helpful to you is exercise. And how that can just make you feel better. We know that exercise impacts your mood. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that?

00;26;04;23 – 00;30;48;11
Robert Biggs
Oh, absolutely. I’m a very big proponent of movement. I, I, I, I look at it, it’s, it’s kind of rudimentary, but I kind of look at it in the sense of, I grew up with a lot of dogs. I grew up with, my family bred and raised Labrador retrievers, and we had, at any given point in my childhood, we would have 2 to 3 large dogs. And they it was always great, always loved it. And I talked about the way that it influenced kind of like my own mentality, between that and my father. But the idea of the dogs I bring up because I looked at what the dogs did and why they were always so happy. And I remember distinctly having this kind of like thought process as a kid. And it’s the dog gets up, goes out, runs around in the sunshine, goes and, you know, jumps and plays and runs and does all that. And then they sleep very, very hard. And I was like, I know that’s very simplistic way of looking at it, but I realized how, like, important it was to actually, you know, just get out and move, get out and get the sun and, and do all that. And then that’s also what kind of spurred me down to my education. I currently hold a master’s degree in applied physiology, with an undergraduate in exercise science. I’ve lived and breathed this aspect of health this this, aspect of exercise for most of my professional career. And as I understood more of the importance of exercise, that is it. It it dumbfounded me how much it influences almost everything else that’s going on into your life. So when I look at that as far as exercise and and how important it is, I would say that it falls down to how exercise can influence the rest of your your wellness, whether we’re talking mental, emotional, spiritual, it’s a lot easier to see the benefits and understand the benefits along side. Once you’ve already made the decision to commit to exercise. So I’m a very big proponent of exercise, and just honestly the wonderful impact that it has on your mood and and just how it changes and influences mental wellness, it kind of in tandem. Now, of course, you have to commit to the activity. You have to have that mental wellness aspect that is committing to this new habit that you’re doing, but it’s almost immediately you receive a reciprocal bonus of, oh, wow, I actually feel pretty good because I went for a walk today. You know, I feel, you know, a little bit better because I rode on the bike at the gym or, you know, I, we took the dog for a walk. You know, something small. When we talk about exercise, everyone always thinks, oh, this has to be backbreaking, sweat intensive. No. Heavens, no. Honestly, just simple movement, my old man. I give him all the credit in the world. He told me this quote a long time ago when I was going to school for exercise and items like this, and he said, movement is life. And I was like, when I heard that, I was like, wow, that’s like that’s really profound. Like, I, I really like that, that that’s such a good tagline. It’s still very important. But I also do want to, a point out that, I later found out that he got that quote from the movie, and I was like, oh, I thought I was like, I thought he had that. That was. But it’s still it’s true. It’s very true. Movement. Yes. Life. And the more that you move and the more that you’re up and active, I mean, that’s naturally what human beings should be. You know, I have a chiropractor who is my good friend also, who said the same thing to me. I think his words were motion is life. And I agree, it’s a very, very important lesson. And I love what you said about the things we can learn from dogs. When I talk with people who have been going through a hard time and I say, hey, what has worked for you in the past? I cannot tell you how many people say spending time with my dog. I just think there’s so many lessons to be learned from from having pets and that unconditional love that we can get from them. But I love that you said they just instinctively know to go run around, to be outside, to have sunshine. And by the way, that sunshine is another component of wellness. There’s so much research that says even five minutes a day, even if it’s cold and windy outside, if you can get out there and just get sunshine on your face, it can change your mood and improve your wellness.

00;30;48;13 – 00;32;21;17
Robert Biggs
Absolutely. And I approach that kind of, in more of like, the naturalist sense as far as, like what makes sense for, for human beings. And, truthfully, I’ve seen a lot of benefits, actually, this morning. Matter of fact, I was the first day in a couple of days that, we’ve had some direct sunlight or sunshine in my backyard. I went and plopped up a chair, and I just sat there for, I don’t know, I was probably like five minutes or so. Just absorb it. Like, just absorbing just, you know, sitting there thinking about what I was going to be doing today and all the things that I just kind of planning my day. But knowing that I receive such a benefit from the, from just sitting out into the sun absorbing that vitamin D, and then it’s also you look at, everyone always likes to talk about, oh, I went on vacation down the, you know, Florida to the Caribbean. I went to this, you know, warm place. You know, it was so great. It was fantastic. And I felt like I was happier there. And it’s like everyone likes to think that it’s just the vacation, but it’s also what, what secretly slips in is the fact that you’re you’re under, not under a lot of stress, and you’re getting at usually a crazy amount of sunlight. And, and I feel like it’s it’s important to know that it’s like, for the most part, you can get that where you’re at. And it’s so critically important and not only regulates, it helps regulate mood, it helps regulate the rest of your body. It helps improve sleep, especially if you get a lot of good sunlight early in the morning. I mean, oh my goodness, there’s so many good things about it.

00;32;21;19 – 00;32;32;09
Kelly Parbs
And it and it’s free. You don’t have to go on a Caribbean vacation. And I live in Wisconsin. We literally had a blizzard on Monday and I still can get outside and get some sunshine on my face.

00;32;32;11 – 00;33;38;24
Robert Biggs
That is that is wild. But that isn’t. But kudos to you. I mean, that’s that’s what’s important is like, you still found a way. I’m not going to lie, when I was sitting out there on my chair, it wasn’t necessarily the warmest, but I, you know, I still, I, I think it’s because I’ve already resigned my, in my head how important this is. So it wasn’t even necessarily a decision that I had to make. And that kind of stems back to what I was talking about. Mental wellness in our decision making factor is I’ve already decided that this is important, this and getting this kind of sunshine is going to overall improve my health. So why don’t I just spend the 5 to 10 minutes that’s out there? What else am I going to be doing? I, you know, now again, granted, this is also because I know that I have an easier morning and I know that there are some people who, unfortunately, do not have the same capabilities. Everyone is in, in a different part of their day and in different parts in their lives. But being able to get out for at least just even five minutes, at I, it will do profound or have profound effects on your health. Just it’s crazy.

00;33;38;26 – 00;34;09;08
Kelly Parbs
Stay tuned for part two of my conversation with Robert Biggs as we continue exploring what wellness looks like in real life, and how small, intentional shifts can make a meaningful difference over time. To hear this episode and other episodes of OnTopic with Empathia, visit our website at www.Empathia.com. Follow us on social media @Empathia, and subscribe so you don’t miss an episode. I’m Kelly Parbs – thanks for listening!